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Old 12-03-2017, 01:17 AM   #301
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At this level, Professional sports, a coaches job is a lot about motivation. Nhl, Nba, Nfl, these guys have been playing their sport their whole life. They know how to play the game, and play it well. They are the best in the world, getting paid millions to play their prospective sport. The best coaches motivate the players to perform optimally. It took the players themselves tonight they were down 6-1 to their rival to become extremely motivated. That's on coach, that's his job.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:37 AM   #302
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I think the Flames are way to passive on the forecheck. They give the opposition easy exits out of their own zone, and then get stuck trying to defend them at full speed on the blue line.

I think the Flames breakouts are mostly ineffective and very predictable. It looks like beer league style, where they just shovel the puck up the boards and hope to clear the zone. Late in the 3rd period the d men were skating it out and hitting the forwards with passes deep in the neutral zone at speed, and it was working. Would like to see more of that.

I would put Stone on the PP instead of Brodie because he has a bomb of a shot, and will actually use it. Brodie is easy to defend on the PK, because he's always pass first.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:42 AM   #303
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Ferland, Tkachuk -3 as the worst on the Flames in that stat.

The best? Jagr with a +1 and 15.03 of ice time, which may be the most he’s played this year in a game. Edit: 2nd most minutes, he played 15:55 vs St. L.

After every goal against, that Jagr line went out next and performed pretty well again on the cycle. Jagr then spent time with Mono and JG as the comeback gained steam in the third.

Last edited by browna; 12-03-2017 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:47 AM   #304
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lol our next game is against the Flyers who have lost 10 in a row. Unlikely they lose 11 against the slump-busting Flames.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:49 AM   #305
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lol our next game is against the Flyers who have lost 10 in a row. Unlikely they lose 11 against the slump-busting Flames.
Agree. Next game is an automatic loss for us, and it sucks.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:53 AM   #306
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lol our next game is against the Flyers who have lost 10 in a row. Unlikely they lose 11 against the slump-busting Flames.
What makes it unlikely the lose? How do the previous 10 games have any bearing on the next one? They have lost 10 in a row because they are not a good team. How would anything they have done previously affect the next game they play?
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:55 AM   #307
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I'm getting sick of hearing how sorely missed Kris Versteeg is on the PP. It's not all about Kris Versteeg being out, it's also a lot about Troy Brouwer promptly going back in. Put anyone else on the PP. Christ, put Hathaway there and you would probably get better results. Brouwer should not be on the PP ever again. He contributes nothing in that role.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:56 AM   #308
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What makes it unlikely the lose? How do the previous 10 games have any bearing on the next one? They have lost 10 in a row because they are not a good team. How would anything they have done previously affect the next game they play?
Unlike a flip of a coin, prior performance does impact the result of the next game. Teams are more likely to win after a loss than a win. It's just the nature of sports. Players are motivated to perform better after a poor result.

Magnify that in a 10-game losing streak, and players are motivated to end it.

And the Flames are playing like they want their coach fired.

Part of this is just me being pessimistic, but it's also kind of funny that probably the last team I'd want to face after a performance like this tonight is the Flyers on Monday.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:56 AM   #309
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PVR'ed the game so just finished it- forgive me if you've heard this already.....
1) Effort absolutely unacceptable and embarrasing. I don't care about 'resiliency', provincial rivals down a goalie and two main defenseman and this happens? Embarrassing.
2) Don't want to rock the boat as I love Jagr as much as the next guy (was super thrilled about signing) but not much happening there. I wasn't expecting the second coming of his offence but guy is several steps behind.
3) I will say this: Fans booing Russell? A warrior who played with us for 2 years? Low end. How about you save your passion for cheering when we are down 6-1.
4) I can't believe we lost again such a garbage goalie. EDM is counting the days until Talbot is back. It is mind boggling we gave this team 6 goals.
5) I HATE lucic. Always have. Scum of the earth neanderthal with at least one hit from behind not called. LA is my second favourite team and when they got him I cringed.
6) Usual McDavid love for every single thing he does (or doesn't) do. Guy steps into his own zone and Cassie raves about his effort.
7) Speaking of which- gave Cassie a chance and she is awful.
8) Brouwer on the PP still. What has he done at all.
So much to be frustrated about. But at the end of the day they are in the cellar and we are ahead. This 'big game' mentality GG talks about may be true. I hope this 'they almost came back' storyline doesn't outweigh the embarrassing flames team that was on the ice for the first two.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:57 AM   #310
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Quote:
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What makes it unlikely the lose? How do the previous 10 games have any bearing on the next one? They have lost 10 in a row because they are not a good team. How would anything they have done previously affect the next game they play?
There's no logic to it. It's just how it goes.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:57 AM   #311
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Agree. Next game is an automatic loss for us, and it sucks.
And what could have been a cushy nine point lead over the northern turd factory could well be only three by the end of that game night. Scary....
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:03 AM   #312
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I'm getting sick of hearing how sorely missed Kris Versteeg is on the PP. It's not all about Kris Versteeg being out, it's also a lot about Troy Brouwer promptly going back in. Put anyone else on the PP. Christ, put Hathaway there and you would probably get better results. Brouwer should not be on the PP ever again. He contributes nothing in that role.


Another brilliant coaching tactic. Take a guy who has 0 goals over 1/4 of the season and give him PP time. It took, what, 20 games for our 3rd leading goal scorer to start getting meaningful PP time? I’d just love to know the rationale for some of these decisions. Stone is one of the few guy with a howitzer, but nope, that wouldn’t be useful on the PP. Brodie looked like an all star on the right side, but let’s force one of our best defenseman to play uncomfortably on the left. His absolute refusal to waver from these decisions is baffling.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:06 AM   #313
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Brouwer is going to have Gaudreau score a goal off is ass and then we'll hear about how smart it was to put Brouwer on PP1.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:28 AM   #314
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Missed Mike Smith on CBC after hours due to PVR. Anything interesting?
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:33 AM   #315
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GG is now 4-9-1 against McLellan. Awesome.

I'm glad to see people finally coming around on GG, he's such a fraud of a coach.

BTW, thanks Glen, it was so worth it getting up at 4am for this...

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Old 12-03-2017, 02:41 AM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Unlike a flip of a coin, prior performance does impact the result of the next game. Teams are more likely to win after a loss than a win. It's just the nature of sports. Players are motivated to perform better after a poor result.

Magnify that in a 10-game losing streak, and players are motivated to end it.

And the Flames are playing like they want their coach fired.

Part of this is just me being pessimistic, but it's also kind of funny that probably the last team I'd want to face after a performance like this tonight is the Flyers on Monday.
Is there stats to back this up? Not trying to be a dick, because I understand what you are saying. I am generally curious as to if stats actually back this up.

My thought process here is the flames are more likely to win because we are playing a ####ty team that has lost 10 in a row. Why can't we make it 11?
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:56 AM   #317
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Missed Mike Smith on CBC after hours due to PVR. Anything interesting?
Found it on Reddit:
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:12 AM   #318
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Well this was a great way to start my Sundy morning. Not only did we lose but to them.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:05 AM   #319
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I haven't written a long-winded, rambling post in quite some time... but here it is.

Not much to be happy about with this game. It is one thing to have to mount a comeback when down by a few goals, but the team was playing great. That's resilience! That's what we enjoyed greatly from the Flames under Hartley at times. This was not a comeback to be enjoyed, excitement aside. The team didn't show up. A team full of chickens who just got their heads cut-off showed up for this game, Smith (and a few exceptions) aside.

Ok, there were a couple of absolutely lucky bounces for the Oilers tonight. Smith didn't surrender a bad goal I though. Arguable on one I guess, but I thought he was pretty good tonight. Just no support. Point blank high quality chance after point blank high quality chance against.

Turning point of the game for me? I yelled at the tv for a timeout. I never yell at the TV. It doesn't always work, but the Flames were so nervous after that. Settle down your troops. That's what the time-out is for. Sure, there might be a case of a bad goal being scored later and being unable to challenge it, but that's the risk you take. It is a good risk when your team is so visibly rattled.

I have said it before, and here it is again - even through most of the wins (not all, but most) this team does NOT play sound defence. That has to change.

Remember, Hartley was fired because the GA was too high (even though he had useless goalies). I agree with the poster a few pages back that made the point that possession would have probably increased as the talent level/personnel improved, as well as the young inexperienced players becoming more experienced. I can't say that there is a marked improvement defensively over Hartley.

As for Brodie - no way you trade Brodie. If the team feels it needs to trade Brodie, my advice would be: "Fire the coach first".

Think of it this way - how expensive would Brodie of 2 seasons ago be to acquire. That was Brodie - the Brodie the Flames have. The Brodie that we see now has a fantastic chance of becoming THAT Brodie again. Why?

As others have mentioned, the LD/RD thing is probably an issue. It isn't even that rare of an issue. Read the following excerpt:

Quote:
In December, a month before we traded for Hagelin, Daley’s name kept coming up in our office. I had really admired his game when he was in Dallas. He was fast, strong and great on the breakout. When the Blackhawks traded for him, I thought it was a good fit.
But, for some reason, Daley was really struggling in Chicago.
So our team had a mini meeting, and we did what we always do. We watched him.
The problem jumped out at me right away. Trevor was on the left side of the TV screen.
Trevor is lefthanded. Chicago was playing him on the left side.
Most people watching would think, “So what? Isn’t that his natural side?”
It is. Most defensemen like playing on their natural side, so that when their defensive partner passes the puck “D-to-D” behind the net, they can catch the puck on their forehand.
But I knew from my box that Trevor actually liked to play on his off-side. He played on the right side in Dallas. Watching him in Chicago, you could tell he was uncomfortable on breakouts.
On the ice, he wasn’t in the best position to succeed.
This was from a Player's Tribune article by Jim Rutherford. Here is the link:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/ji...ut-being-a-gm/

How valuable was Brodie 2 seasons ago? Damn near untouchable, right? "most important player on the team, even ahead of Gaudreau" - there was a fair bit of those comments being made on these forums, and I am not sure I would argue with them.

Remember how lousy Bouwmeester was under Sutter? I yelled for him to be traded. Poor offensively, poor defensively... but the Flames got a new coach, and Bouwmeester went and put up more goals in those 33 games before getting traded than in any of his previous 3 full 82 iron-man seasons.

The fact of the matter is that Calgary is under-performing consistently. Even in the games they are winning, they are under-performing defensively. They are not good enough defensively, and they are NOT making up for it offensively either.

In the history of this Calgary Flames team, there has been exactly 3 coaches that made this team better than the sum of their parts - Johnson, D. Sutter and Hartley. Maybe not every season, but at least for while. Conversely, there has been too many that under-performed. Where does Gulutzan fall on this spread? Somewhere in the middle? I think he has been below average, and these are the two reasons why I think so:

1) Not making use of team strengths
2) Not making enough in-game adjustments

I am sorry, but playing Brouwer on the PP doesn't work. Sure, there have been goals in the past that went in on the PP due to a Brouwer screen, but these have been FAR too few. Put Ferland in that spot. Put Jagr in that spot. Heck, put Bulldog Bennett in that spot. Even 'the next Nieuwendyk' Janowski in that spot as he has both the size and the quick hands. Please stop putting Brouwer.

Team strengths - ok, so what is the strength of this team? What is the real backbone of this squad? Defence! Why in the heck are the Flames so adamant about using a 4F, 1D formation on the PP???? Argue if Versteeg was working or not, but now other forwards are being rotated through that spot? I would like to see a rotation of Giordano, Hamilton and Stone instead please.That PP is missing the bomb from the point, and that keeps the opposing forwards honest and from collapsing too much.

This is NOT a quick transitioning team. Remember when Hamonic and Smith were acquired? "This team is going to be scary to play against as they can transition the puck so quickly, even Smith!" Sorry, but forcing everyone back every time to start a 5 man transition every time isn't working. It is allowing the forecheckers way too much time to enter the zone and create pressure. Move the puck out of the zone quickly.

Line matching - Gulutzan doesn't line match much, and I think this partially explains the worse home-record.

When your team is obviously rattled, use the damn time-out. It might bite you in the butt later in the game, but it at least gives your team a chance to breathe, allows for a quick in-game adjustment, and gives you the best chance to press the 'restart' button on the game. If that continues to not work, pull the goalie. Smith didn't deserve to be pulled. I disagree with when he got yanked though - he should have been yanked right after the 4th goal, and as a coach, I would say to him as he came off the ice and in the loudest enough voice so the entire building would hear: "these guys don't deserve your effort tonight. They don't want to put that effort in, I am not going to waste your efforts tonight."

Gulutzan simply looks like a guy who doesn't have an answer at the moment. Maybe the players are not as good as I think, or perhaps it has a lot more to do with Gulutzan and/or his system not being a good fit. I can't answer that.

All I see is a team that isn't mentally strong, that doesn't put in a good effort What I saw under Hartley's last year was a team that was constantly rattled playing in front of shaky goaltending. What I see under Gulutzan is a shaky team playing in front of good goaltending.

One in-game adjustment I would make:
- Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland - when they are on the ice, change your system to be a rushing team. They are damn good off the rush. Send them out against the slower lines.
- Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik - for heaven's sake, this is your bona-fide checking line to do line-matching against the opposing best lines.
- Bennett - Jankowski - Jagr - this is the line you send out when playing against a physically weaker line. They will cycle like crazy for you and create chances.

This defence should be lethal offensively. Calgary's defence was lethal for the first 3 years under Hartley, and in no way was that blueline as talented as this one.

Now, this sounds like a "Bring Hartley Back" post, but it isn't. Hartley isn't coming back. However, I stand by another comment I made long ago - just because you fired a few coaches doesn't mean that it isn't the coach that is the problem - it may just mean that you just haven't hired the right coach yet. Anyone here feel that the Flames should have re-signed Elliott last season? We did go through a bunch of goalies, and none of them proved without a doubt to be the right one, so goaltending must not have been the problem, right? Same concept.

At any rate, the strength of this team is defence - yet it seems to me like defence is the biggest issue on the team right now. This group should be at least decent defensively (they are not - they either go from looking good for a game or two, to looking downright awful for a game or two). This group should be absolutely lethal offensively - they are not creating/providing enough offence, nor are they transitioning the puck with any speed.

This team is inconsistent. You can't win regularly if you aren't playing consistently. A good team is one that is more than the sum of its' parts. A mediocre/poor team is one that is less than the sum of its' parts. This is the latter. There have been few games this season where I thought that they played really well from start to finish.

Losing against one of the league's worst teams, who have issues scoring, relying on a goalie with an 0-4-1 record this season, and missing two key defencemen is awful.

What is more awful than that? Not showing up for the game, even though they are your #1 rival, who you have been winless against for the previous 6 games, and allowing that team to score 7 goals on you, while looking terrible. That's inexcusable. There really is no excuse. None.

I have been beating this drum all season - I expected to see a much improved defence. The goalie situation was MASSIVELY upgraded. The defence was MASSIVELY upgraded - especially considering who was removed, and that Stone was re-signed and the Flames have had the luxury to start him this year, as well as a much improved Kulak. Yet, I see a team that is porous defensively most nights, with an occasional teaser of 'how awesome they can be'. This team has RARELY played up to its' strengths thus far.

Forget about being awesome. Just concentrate on being mediocre at least. For those that really believe a coaching change would be unheard of for a team that is above .500, think again. Know what a record of 14-11-1 gets you? Out of a playoff spot. 5th worst team in the west. 9th worst team in the NHL in GA. Sorry, why did the Flames fire Hartley? At least Hartley had a legitimate excuse with the porous goaltending.

Not being in a playoff spot when you have the embarrassing Oilers, the expansion Knights, the constantly sucking Coyotes and the "are we rebuilding or not?" Canucks is really inexcusable. That's the bottom line at this point in the season. I don't think that Gulutzan will get fired, but looking at the record and seeing a 'winning team' doesn't make the idea unquestionable or objectionable. Winning teams are not outside the playoffs looking in.

The huge positive so far this season - boy was I wrong about Smith. I tried to keep an open mind about him - I even posted as such when the Flames acquired him, but never did I think he would be this good. He let in a bunch of goals tonight, but boy did he make some good stops. He makes a heck of a lot of huge stops, and rarely does he get beaten with a stinker. Best and most consistent goalie this team has had since Kipper.
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:08 AM   #320
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I blame all those who piled on Kris Russell the other night and in doing so dismissed everything he is about as a hockey player and was about while with Calgary. It seems to some every asset that leaves the organization is garbage, except Darryl Sutter of course. The 2 goals against Rittich are on you folks.
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