High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Locke

And that would be perfectly fair. They've got a long ways to come. Many non-Western societies do.

But just being intolerant of them and shrugging your shoulders at an entire society doesnt speak well of us either, it means that we're not willing to help and they have to figure it out on their own.

Just write them all off.

What do you suggest? Any public display of LGBTQ support or information is illegal in Russia. So....

[Fuzz]

I think he is suggesting we go in there and bomb the intolerance outa them.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What do you suggest? Any public display of LGBTQ support or information is illegal in Russia. So....

I know I'm amazing and all but rectifying Global Intolerance of all things is something I'm still working on.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Locke

And that would be perfectly fair. They've got a long ways to come. Many non-Western societies do.

But just being intolerant of them and shrugging your shoulders at an entire society doesnt speak well of us either, it means that we're not willing to help and they have to figure it out on their own.

Just write them all off.

One of the major subcultures in Russia is the "New Russians". They are largely about instant gratification at the expense of most else. It's a subculture of shallowness, immorality (if necessary) and hypocrisy. It's no wonder why Trump admires them. It's a garbage subculture.

Russia has a lot of other subcultures. Some are based around philanthropy, art and progressive thought. These used to be much more prominent. Sadly, they are mostly drowned out by the "New Russians". Not surprising considering most of the oligarchs, TV executives and government officials are either "New Russians" or work for them. I'd say Russian culture is regressing largely due to the rise of the "New Russians" and subsequent generations.

So, Russia isn't garbage but their dominant subculture is.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Talk about your false equivalencies.

At the moment you're showing the same ignorant intolerance as you're proclaiming all of Russia are.

"They dont think the same way I do or the way I think they should."

That's not what a false equivalence is.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

One of the major subcultures in Russia is the "New Russians". They are largely about instant gratification at the expense of most else. It's a subculture of shallowness, immorality (if necessary) and hypocrisy. It's no wonder why Trump admires them. It's a garbage subculture.

Russia has a lot of other subcultures. Some are based around philanthropy, art and progressive thought. These used to be much more prominent. Sadly, they are mostly drowned out by the "New Russians". Not surprising considering most of the oligarchs, TV executives and government officials are either "New Russians" or work for them. I'd say Russian culture is regressing largely due to the rise of the "New Russians" and subsequent generations.

So, Russia isn't garbage but their dominant subculture is.

That's basically what I was trying to get at. It doesn't help that the New Russians have basically been driving the other subcultures out of Russia which only serves to consolidate Russian culture in the New Russian subculture.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

Do we need a "it sucks to be a gay person in Russia" thread? this one's getting derailed.

What he said.

[OMG!WTF!]

Wow...Matt Lauer is gone...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/2...00.Uau3J-D8H6E

[Senator Clay Davis]

Considering it's the first accusation and how expensive it's gotta be to fire him (I think he makes like $25 million per year and has several years left on his deal), you gotta think these might be some of the more serious allegations so far.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Wow...Matt Lauer is gone...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/2...00.Uau3J-D8H6E

I know he's not Russian and has nothing to do with Russia but this is kind of big news as he's been a staple of a successful morning show for decades. Sounds like this had been under investigation for a while so he must have done something that crossed the line to the point where immediate termination was necessary.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Considering it's the first accusation and how expensive it's gotta be to fire him (I think he makes like $25 million per year and has several years left on his deal), you gotta think these might be some of the more serious allegations so far.

There is probably a "morals" clause in his contract, thereby making his termination a relatively inexpensive matter.

That said, I'm beginning to believe that there is a lot of score settling going on now, wrapped in the cloak of harassment.

[ernie]

Companies really don't just fire people on a he said she said type thing. There needs to be proof or the company opens themselves up to lawsuit from the fired employee. It's really not "Matt there was an accusation so you're fired".

I'm not inclined to believe there is score settling going on though I'm sure there is a very small amount of that. I believe this is simply a case of culture. And not just Hollywood culture but the overall culture of, really, the world. Men by and large have been raised and in many cases continue to be raised as the superior sex. Heck the other day we had someone over and she was shocked I did the cooking and was doing the dishes...gender roles is still a very strong feature of a good chunk of the USA. And gender roles have historically included a "what I say goes" and that, well, women are essentially considered property to do with as you will.

What's happening with this situation is finally people are speaking up, such actions are no longer tolerated and by necessity past transgressions which may have a "how we were taught" perspective are being treated as if they happened today rather than 30 years ago. That's necessary to cut the cancer out completely while the opening is there. We are seeing the culture shift.

I hope.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

There is probably a "morals" clause in his contract, thereby making his termination a relatively inexpensive matter.

That said, I'm beginning to believe that there is a lot of score settling going on now, wrapped in the cloak of harassment.

Score settling like I put up with this guys harassment for years so I hate him so now I'm going to punish him?

I do agree that people are coming forward now because there are consequences for the accused and they will be believed. It is the victims first opportunity to settle the score. Had there been opportunity to be believed and your career not destroyed by making the accusations they would have happened earlier

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do agree that people are coming forward now because there are consequences for the accused and they will be believed. It is the victims first opportunity to settle the score. Had there been opportunity to be believed and your career not destroyed by making the accusations they would have happened earlier

that's totally correct.
it helps the accusers that punishment isn't now reliant on the legal system..
seems to be purely the court of public opinion now that decides things.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by GGG

Score settling like I put up with this guys harassment for years so I hate him so now I'm going to punish him?

More like:

This guy once did something that I didn't like many years ago (which may or may not have been harassment), and although I've never told anyone else about what happened, I'm going to tell my story now because I've finally got my chance to get back at him for doing so.

Or...

This guy may have done something to me a long, long time ago, but I've never really liked him and so I'm going to come forward now, jump on the bandwagon and perhaps embellish a few details, and get my revenge.

As you put it, "people are coming forward now because there are consequences for the accused and they will be believed." All the more reason to question the accusers' motive and timing, in my view.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

More like:

This guy once did something that I didn't like many years ago (which may or may not have been harassment), and although I've never told anyone else about what happened, I'm going to tell my story now because I've finally got my chance to get back at him for doing so.

Or...

This guy may have done something to me a long, long time ago, but I've never really liked him and so I'm going to come forward now, jump on the bandwagon and perhaps embellish a few details, and get my revenge.

As you put it, "people are coming forward now because there are consequences for the accused and they will be believed." All the more reason to question the accusers' motive and timing, in my view.

What you alleging then is a conspiracy if victims all coming forward together both on and off the record. None of these have been one offs where your comments might be valid. This Lauer one the article states that although only one complaint was made the investigation revealed a pattern of behaviour. The women who broke the Louis cK story in 2012 have many more sources who are not willing to go on record that alleged harassment.

So far the media has been responsible in fact checking here. Most of these reports are backed by friends of the accused who were told at the time these events occurred or are common knowledge in the industry (Weinstein, Sapcey, Gomeshi).

We saw from the Veritas WAPO sting attempt that the newsrooms are being careful and killing questionable reports. No one has been sued for liable or slander yet.

This isn't to say it can't happen. But saying you are starting to think this is revenge cloaked as harassment is a misread of the situation.

Which case in particular do you feel that this is the case, that embellishment has gone on to get revenge?

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by GGG

Which case in particular do you feel that this is the case, that embellishment has gone on to get revenge?

Mostly Conyers and Franken.

And my hunch is that some of the Weinstein accusers are using their acting skills to some degree.

[PepsiFree]

First long-winded digressions on Russians, now misplaced conspiracies to take down powerful people.

You’d swear this was the American Politics thread if you weren’t looking close enough.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Mostly Conyers and Franken.

And my hunch is that some of the Weinstein accusers are using their acting skills to some degree.

It's hard for us to relate to the Hollywood stuff because it's simply its own culture that we as outsiders can't relate. On one hand you have actresses like Uma Thurman condemning the Weinstein which is understandable but then there's the pictures of her posing kissing him at parties and celebrating when their movies win awards. It's like the entire culture is based off creeps and fakes. I'm kind of torn in that many of these actors/actresses put fame and money ahead of doing what was right. Is fear of getting blackballed a good enough reason to enable the cycle to repeat over and over and over to the people that come behind you? Like I said maybe as an outsider I can't fully understand and maybe I would do the same in their situation but there does seem to be a degree of selfishness all around.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's like the entire culture is based off creeps and fakes.

It is an entire industry of creeps and monstrously ambitious narcissists. We shouldn't let the pleasure we take in their creations blind us to the fact the stars in the entertainment industry are deeply unpleasant people.

You have to be a bastard to make it [in show business], and that's a fact. And the Beatles are the biggest bastards on earth.

- John Lennon