Vancouver's safe injection site successful: study

[RedHot25]

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/...ion-study.html

Vancouver's safe injection site is slowing down the spread of HIV and helping drug users quit their habits, a new study finds — but an expert suggested that Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his government won't want to hear those results.

.........

Wainberg criticized the federal Conservative government, singling out Health Minister Tony Clement for cutting a grant that would have allowed further study of the injection site — something Clement himself has said is necessary.

.........

"I think that there is a profound bias in this administration," Dr. Julio Montaner, the director of B.C. Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, told CBC News in an interview tied to the release of the study.
"Unfortunately, no matter how many attempts we have made to have an intelligent and educated discussion about this issue, their principles stand in the way of evidence-based decision making," said Montaner.
"And to me, that's unacceptable."

[Winsor_Pilates]

Interesting
I heard about a similar example in school that was done in Switzerland and had amazingly positive results. Something like 80% of the junkies kicking their habbits.

I'll try and find some more info on it

[nieuwy-89]

This issue is as simple as it gets - I don't want my taxes paying for some useless junkie's latest hit.

All the evidence in the world won't change my mind, or my neighbour's mind, or my parents' mind...etc.

In politics, evidence is what you gather from phone calls, letters, and polling results. When Dr Julio talks about "their" principles getting in the way of his program's success, he is talking about the principles of every day Canadians, not just Stephen Harper.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

This issue is as simple as it gets - I don't want my taxes paying for some useless junkie's latest hit.

That's a simple way to look at it.

What if the benefits outweigh the costs?

What if your tax dollars funding this means a reduction in crime, and an increase in what these people contribute to society? The return on the investment might be worth it.

[Bunk]

^Interestingly, I'm doing a cost-benefit analysis on Insite right now!

So far it seems that the benefits far outweigh the very minimal costs to run this facility (about $2 million a year - $500 000 from the federal government.) The fact is that it is saving lives, helping lower the spread of disease and saving the general health care system a hell of a lot of money. If you don't see this as a benefit, you are either blind or cold-hearted.

nieuwy-89: would you rather more of your money go to treating an overdose or an AIDS, or HEP-C patient instead? because that is the alternative.

These kind of centres should be opening all across Canada if you care at all about saving lives. The people that have fallen upon this addiction have for many many reasons including mental health issues, severe abuse and so on. It is our responsibilty to try and help them, because at this point they are no longer able to help themselves. And why not save some money while we're at it!

[Red Mile Style]

Here's something else that's successful in Vancouver: The Weed cafes.

It's like Canada's own little Amsterdam! When staying in the Vancouver area, make sure you check out the New Amsterdam cafe on Hastings (before it gets super sketchy). Good times. Good times.

(*disclaimer* weed cafes might lead to a huge loss of time... meaning you might go in at 3 in the afternoon, and come out at 10, thinking you've only been in there an hour tops.)

I say hazaa! to the safe injection sites. It worked in Europe, it's working here. Of corse people are going to have problems with it, until they see the benefits of it. It's like the government paying for methodone for addicts - you're giving them the drug, but it's helping in the long run.

[evman150]

omfg die liberals die!!!!1

The funny thing is we have a "conservative" government in BC right now. This is evidenced every September and January when I have to pay tuition.

[Vulcan]

I'm all for the government taking over the illegal drug trade where possible as long as the aim is to offer the opportunity to get these people off their habits. It will cut down on crime and hopefully put the big dealers out of business so they can't spread their death to others. The addicts will also get a chance to live a somewhat normal healthy life and maybe even contribute to society.

Something I don't understand, are they giving out heroin at this site or only offering a safe and clean place to shoot up?

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

This issue is as simple as it gets - I don't want my taxes paying for some useless junkie's latest hit.

All the evidence in the world won't change my mind, or my neighbour's mind, or my parents' mind...etc.

In politics, evidence is what you gather from phone calls, letters, and polling results. When Dr Julio talks about "their" principles getting in the way of his program's success, he is talking about the principles of every day Canadians, not just Stephen Harper.

Not this Canadian. I'm for decreasing the spread of aids and diseases and taking potential criminals off the street. Something your tax dollars should be doing. I guess a lot of right wing people don't understand the fundamentals of pay now or pay later.
Just because you don't pay for the programs doesn't mean you aren't going to pay. I.e. extra police needed to enforce the laws, more victim support for crime. Health care increases for a bigger load on the system and these are just the ones I can think of.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

This issue is as simple as it gets - I don't want my taxes paying for some useless junkie's latest hit.

All the evidence in the world won't change my mind, or my neighbour's mind, or my parents' mind...etc.

In politics, evidence is what you gather from phone calls, letters, and polling results. When Dr Julio talks about "their" principles getting in the way of his program's success, he is talking about the principles of every day Canadians, not just Stephen Harper.

So you would rather your taxes go to crime fighting, social programs (to give money to the homeless, jobless crack addicts), victims of crime, and health care costs?

If this prevents people from committing crimes and lowering health care cost.....I am all for it. I think you are being very short sighted.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by evman150

omfg die liberals die!!!!1

The funny thing is we have a "conservative" government in BC right now. This is evidenced every September and January when I have to pay tuition.

Too lazy to make it on your own?

[nieuwy-89]

All of your arguments are valid - and I'm not disputing the long term cost/benefit of this project.

I'm saying there's a political reality at play - no matter how successful the pilot program is, the optics are brutal.

The federal government will do what THEIR SUPPORTERS tell them to do. Don't be surprised if this thing gets canned, despite the best intentions of those involved.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

All of your arguments are valid - and I'm not disputing the long term cost/benefit of this project.

I'm saying there's a political reality at play - no matter how successful the pilot program is, the optics are brutal.

The federal government will do what THEIR SUPPORTERS tell them to do. Don't be surprised if this thing gets canned, despite the best intentions of those involved.

It's still a minority government (therefore, it does not represent the majority of Canadians).

Whatever happened to Stephen Harper's pledge to work together with other parties?

I would be willing to bet that most Canadians, especially those in Vancouver, would like to see the program extended if this study is valid.

[Agamemnon]

Maybe the supporters who want this program canned aren't aware of the benefits. Maybe they're gut instinct is "I don't want my tax dollars going to fund drug users" without realizing the potential economic/social benefits of the program. It would be a shame to cancel its funding due to widespread ignorance...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's still a minority government (therefore, it does not represent the majority of Canadians).

Whatever happened to Stephen Harper's pledge to work together with other parties?

I would be willing to bet that most Canadians, especially those in Vancouver, would like to see the program extended if this study is valid.

Thats one thing I don't like about the conservatives. They are very closed minded when it comes to thinking outside the box with regards to drugs.

[nieuwy-89]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Maybe the supporters who want this program canned aren't aware of the benefits. Maybe they're gut instinct is "I don't want my tax dollars going to fund drug users" without realizing the potential economic/social benefits of the program. It would be a shame to cancel its funding due to widespread ignorance...

It's not like this is the only issue where fear and ignorance trump logic and facts. Health care reform is the best example in this country. And if you look at this in the big picture, as many have mentioned, the safe injection site is a public health issue, not a "war on drugs" issue.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

It's not like this is the only issue where fear and ignorance trump logic and facts. Health care reform is the best example in this country. And if you look at this in the big picture, as many have mentioned, the safe injection site is a public health issue, not a "war on drugs" issue.

It is both.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

It's not like this is the only issue where fear and ignorance trump logic and facts. Health care reform is the best example in this country. And if you look at this in the big picture, as many have mentioned, the safe injection site is a public health issue, not a "war on drugs" issue.

I think there's just a general mean spiritedness towards these people sometimes..living in Vancouver i've heard some people really sympathize with them and want the safe injection sites to work, and i've heard some people with the "throw them in jail and let them rot" attitude. They really are the fringe of society, and some people don't want to associate with it at all, or even acknowledge it exists.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

It's not like this is the only issue where fear and ignorance trump logic and facts. Health care reform is the best example in this country. And if you look at this in the big picture, as many have mentioned, the safe injection site is a public health issue, not a "war on drugs" issue.

Fair enough, though if we recognize that fear and ignorance are factors in driving the crowd who are against this centre, then there's a chance reason and logic can win out and keep the centre going. I think everyone can agree that preventing the spread of AIDS and getting 'junkies' clean is worth spending a few bucks now to save a few more later (in treatment/OD costs, AIDS treatment). When people say this;

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

This issue is as simple as it gets - I don't want my taxes paying for some useless junkie's latest hit.

All the evidence in the world won't change my mind, or my neighbour's mind, or my parents' mind...etc.

It sounds like they don't really want to 'get it', their bias and prejudice about the topic is really strong. Thats why we need to educate those around us if we can (as people have done in this thread, as you said) so that maybe we can change a mind or two and keep these types of programs going (or at least continue the study to get more results).

[eazyduzzit]

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/n...77&k=66078&p=1

Article which states the complete opposite, sounds to me as it's getting worse.

I have a few friends who live in Vancouver and they also told me in the last 5 years they have seen things get worse... in their opinions.

Very good read though..sort of long.