Kramer pulls a Mel Gibson

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Just asking...
What kind of prior video do you need to see that would give you anything but a negetive judgment of Richard's comments?

You seem to be saying that if certain things are said before that clip, you won't be disgusted by his reaction.
I'm curious what those certain things are that would justify his reaction?

I guess I wouldn't say "justify." More like "explain." It would still be wrong on the part of Richards, but not the sudden going off that he seems to do.

You are correct; nothing that happened can make this situation right. But it can tell us why it happened.

And perhaps I'm being a little clouded in my judgement; in that Richards brought me a great deal of enjoyment throughout his career. And that may be part of the reason why I want to hear the whole story before I go out and shred my UHF DVD.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by SpitFire40

Nothing will justify it... nobody is claiming it would. But something more has to have been said for him to go that far...

Why? Why are you still trying to determine that there had to have been something for him to go that far? Provoked or not, nothing justifies it nor the behaviour of those in the audience.

And you cant say, if he was provoked, his reaction is not quite as bad. That is like Little Johnny saying to the teacher, but Little Jimmy called me a name first. sniff, sniff, sniff, he hurt my feelings, so I hurt him back.

[SpitFire40]

Originally Posted by redforever

Why? Why are you still trying to determine that there had to have been something for him to go that far? Provoked or not, nothing justifies it nor the behaviour of those in the audience.

And you cant say, if he was provoked, his reaction is not quite as bad. That is like Little Johnny saying to the teacher, but Little Jimmy called me a name first. sniff, sniff, sniff, he hurt my feelings, so I hurt him back.

To satisfy my own curiousity??

[Weiser Wonder]

A pretty in-depth article about it. Apparently he was on Letterman to apologize...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/entert...ck=1&cset=true

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by SpitFire40

To satisfy my own curiousity??

That's not what you and Ken seem to be saying. Why is important? He said what he said and nothing that could have happened makes it alight or even understandable.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I guess I wouldn't say "justify." More like "explain." It would still be wrong on the part of Richards, but not the sudden going off that he seems to do.

You are correct; nothing that happened can make this situation right. But it can tell us why it happened.

And perhaps I'm being a little clouded in my judgement; in that Richards brought me a great deal of enjoyment throughout his career. And that may be part of the reason why I want to hear the whole story before I go out and shred my UHF DVD.

What can prove to you that nothing more then "you suck" or "this isnt funny" was said?

Dion provided two links to two seperate articles, quoting the club manager and fans that were present at the show both stating nothing more was said....what else do you want?

[SpitFire40]

Originally Posted by Barnes

That's not what you and Ken seem to be saying. Why is important? He said what he said and nothing that could have happened makes it alight or even understandable.

Oh, You're Brave now mother ****er!

Too soon?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

...what else do you want?

Don't comedy clubs make recordings of the comedians? Heck, wasn't that even a Seinfeld episode; Elaine making noises into the recording?

There is a reason why courts do not allow people to testify as to what they heard another person say (aka hearsay.) The reason is the way our brains work we tend to subconsciously distort what we recall.

We've all heard the recording of Richards saying those nasty things. And it is quite likely that what was said to him wasn't quite so nasty. All I'd like is to hear what was said; not somebody's summary of what was said.

The other thing that is suspect; this happened Friday night. Why are we just hearing about it today?

As I said, we aren't getting the full story. And I could very well find myself agreeing with you. However I want to hear the whole story before I judge somebody.

Why was the Edmonton police officer not charged for slapping the woman on the Blue Mile last year; when we had a picture showing him doing it? Because once the whole story came out; we found that she had also done something to prevoke it. Had we judged him just on what was in the picture, his career might have been done.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Your totally contridicted yourself there IMO. I agree with the first bolded statement whole heartedly, but if it was not a mistake, and he kept going on and on that makes him a racist, case closed.

I can perhaps accept the man saying it once in a fit of rage, but going on and on just shows he is a racist and the rage he felt made him show his true colours.

If you disagree with me, ask yourself, if you are a white person would you EVER no matter what the circumstances were, EVER say those things Richards said to a black man? I know I never would, I might swear a bue streak, I might even charge into the audience and throw a punch, but NOTHING would ever cause most people to use racial slurs, ESSPECIALLY repeatadly as Richards did.

There is no grey area here, if you do what Richards did, you ARE a racist, no two ways about it.

First off, I'm not white, but if I did lose it, anything could come out of my mouth...or yours for that matter. Richards probably had the balls to come out and say what he thought...for the worse. Hey, to answer your question, it's about balls and nothing else. OK...this is the scenario, if a black man came up to you while you were performing, and told you, "Hey (insert negative background comment here), you suck!" or something worse (which was not the case here, but hypothetically speaking), you're telling me you wouldn't try to outdo him by shoving it back at him? All I'm saying, is we shouldn't be so quick to say "hey, I'm better than this guy", because the truth is, if the right circumstances arise, you're gonna fling everything you got...right or wrong. I'm not making excuses for the guy...what he did absolutely was wrong, but see the circumstances surrounding it, the video tells half the story. It's like a wife killing her abusing husband, and we only hear about the killing part. I wouldn't be so quick to call him a racist. Prejudice more likely.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by SpitFire40

Oh, You're Brave now mother ****er!

Too soon?

Answer the question, cracker!

And is anyone seriously offended by cracker? I always put that up there with gringo and goy. Infact, the mods can change my little title below my name to cracker.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Nicole

I agree. I had a falling out a few years ago with my brothers ex girlfriend who is black. Although I was p***** at her, not once did the issue of her race come to mind ... it's absurd that race even has to be an issue. Like my dear late dad used to say "We all bleed the same colour, we're all the same inside."
I think it's pretty apparent that Micheal Richards true colours were showing.

Are you serious? The reasoning just doesn't make sense. Have you ever lost it on somebody, using F's and B's and the next day regretted it? That day you did do that, your "true" colours probably showed, and if that were the case, we'd all be known as *******s.

Maybe the circumstances surrounding his meltdown were different from yours too.

[SpitFire40]

One more thing, when Richard's ask's "Where's he going"? It's almost like he's trying to say, you can dish it out but can't take it? Which leads me to believe more was said...

Enough with the two wrongs don't make a right BS. There's no way in hell Richards got that ****ed by some measely "You're not funny" comment.

As mentioned by fleury above, if someone hits a nerve with you, you're bound to say anything, you'll regret it later no doubt and it doesn't necessarily mean you think like that on a day to day basis.

I've watched Michael Richards on Oprah to promote Seinfeld DVD's and he's a really nice guy, quiet, humble guy.

There has to be more to this, or the dude forgot his med's that day... there's no way he'd go off like that. I must see this entire video and knowing the internet hopefully it shows up.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Well if you read the info from the link provided by Dion it sounds as though he was barely provoked at all.

And no violence is certain not my idea of a moral high road, but I will admit it is something I may do in the heat of the moment if I was provoked enough. I still think resorting to violence is not as bad as discriminating against someone verbally based on their race, religion or gender, buts thats my oppinion.

I was watching the "breaking news" of this on CNN yesterday actually, and they brought on a person who said that Richards was yelling something to the effect of, "I'm a millionaire, and have more money they you'll ever have from Seinfeld...etc, etc", but somehow, that's not on the tape we're seeing today. There's more to this story than is being showed.

[Dion]

Enough with this there has to be more to this BS. The facts are out there all ready in the media. Comments from the manager and patrons in the place itself. It's out there if people care to do the search.

[SpitFire40]

Originally Posted by Dion

Enough with this there has to be more to this BS. The facts are out there all ready in the media. Comments from the manager and patrons in the place itself. It's out there if people care to do the search.

Thanks Captain Google.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by SpitFire40

Oh, You're Brave now mother ****er!

Too soon?

further proof that some lose it with no provocation. What has been for the most part civilized discussion has now gone to the gutter.

[Flames_Gimp]

just watch letterman tonight if you want to hear more about it

[redforever]

Originally Posted by fleury

First off, I'm not white, but if I did lose it, anything could come out of my mouth...or yours for that matter. Richards probably had the balls to come out and say what he thought...for the worse. Hey, to answer your question, it's about balls and nothing else. OK...this is the scenario, if a black man came up to you while you were performing, and told you, "Hey (insert negative background comment here), you suck!" or something worse (which was not the case here, but hypothetically speaking), you're telling me you wouldn't try to outdo him by shoving it back at him? All I'm saying, is we shouldn't be so quick to say "hey, I'm better than this guy", because the truth is, if the right circumstances arise, you're gonna fling everything you got...right or wrong. I'm not making excuses for the guy...what he did absolutely was wrong, but see the circumstances surrounding it, the video tells half the story. It's like a wife killing her abusing husband, and we only hear about the killing part. I wouldn't be so quick to call him a racist. Prejudice more likely.

no, it is about not being able to stop without responding in kind. Believe it or not, there are people who would say, I take offense to that and then would simply walk away.

[Flames_Gimp]

that video was ssooo over the top and shocking...., it was almost funny, as i couldnt believe what i was hearing

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Don't comedy clubs make recordings of the comedians? Heck, wasn't that even a Seinfeld episode; Elaine making noises into the recording?

There is a reason why courts do not allow people to testify as to what they heard another person say (aka hearsay.) The reason is the way our brains work we tend to subconsciously distort what we recall.

We've all heard the recording of Richards saying those nasty things. And it is quite likely that what was said to him wasn't quite so nasty. All I'd like is to hear what was said; not somebody's summary of what was said.

The other thing that is suspect; this happened Friday night. Why are we just hearing about it today?

As I said, we aren't getting the full story. And I could very well find myself agreeing with you. However I want to hear the whole story before I judge somebody.

Why was the Edmonton police officer not charged for slapping the woman on the Blue Mile last year; when we had a picture showing him doing it? Because once the whole story came out; we found that she had also done something to prevoke it. Had we judged him just on what was in the picture, his career might have been done.

Well you are right, there could be more to it..wouldnt change my oppinion though.

The only part of your post I will comment on is the recording is the Seinfeld epsiode was done by Jerry I recall just so he could listen to his act, wasnt done by the comedy club...that has nothing to do with this debate though!