Kramer pulls a Mel Gibson

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Until people accept that calling a white person a cracker or a honky is "racist", the cycle of racial intolerance will continue also.

Yes it will, and that is why you have to rise above the occasion and let it go. It does no good to accept the bait and get the fire burning hotter.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Meaning what?

That people automatically jump on the side of the 'white guy' who is accused of saying something racist or a racial slur, with the defense "you don't know the whole story, and I do because I have this phatom evidence"

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Burninator

That people automatically jump on the side of the 'white guy' who is accused of saying something racist or a racial slur, with the defense "you don't know the whole story, and I do because I have this phatom evidence"

Ahhh. Gotch ya. Agreed.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So what did these guys in the crowd say to him? They can just spew out anything they want at this guy and he has to take it? I'm not defending racist comments, but I can see how someone can flip out and say really harsh things they don't mean..I've done it myself. I'm sure you have too. Maybe these guys were pushing his buttons so much and he just lost it and wanted to insult them in the most directly obvious and offensive way possible. Definitely a mistake on his part, but I don't like how these dudes in the crowd instantly become the victims in this. I don't know what they said to provoke that kind of reaction. Richards pulled a verbal Zidane headbutt.

I dont care what they said to him, rite or wrong, racial comment or whatever. I am saying, he is in show business, is a stand up comedian, he will be baited, this will not be the first time.

The only way to stop the cycle, no matter what cycle, racial intolerance, spousal abuse, child abuse, u name it, the cycle will not be broken until tolerance is shown by both sides.

If he was being heckled, it does not make it rite for him to spout off in this manner. Two wrongs never make a rite.

And I am sorry, I have never retaliated in such a manner. I will not tolerate such behavior, but I will never retaliate by spouting off and repeatedly calling someone else names. As far as I am concerned, that almost makes you worse than the person who did the taunting. People have to rise above these type of occasions. Tough yes, impossible, not by a long shot. U never come out smelling like roses if you get down to the same level as the ones giving dirty shots to you.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Uh...I think everone has said it was wrong....what some people are arguing, including myself, is that just because he said what he said, doesn't make him a racist. He said some racist things yes....but that does not make him a racist.

Like I said before.....if he said something like this when his mind was clear and he was not clouded by his anger....then I would put a lot more weight into the assumption that he is a racist.

Here we go again, defending him by saying, he was clouded by anger, his mind was not clear. And we are talking semantics, using the "n" word in the heat of the moment is not racist, but with a clear mind, it is?

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by redforever

Here we go again, defending him by saying, he was clouded by anger, his mind was not clear. And we are talking semantics, using the "n" word in the heat of the moment is not racist, but with a clear mind, it is?

You got it. If I stab someone without being provoked then it's attempted murder but if I stab someone when they've angered me then its okay......

Oh right. IT'S NOT.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Barnes

You got it. If I stab someone without being provoked then it's attempted murder but if I stab someone when they've angered me then its okay......

Oh right. IT'S NOT.

No it is not. It is not right to stab someone period. And that is exactly what I am saying about the use of the "n" word.

It is not right, period.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by redforever

I dont care what they said to him, rite or wrong, racial comment or whatever. I am saying, he is in show business, is a stand up comedian, he will be baited, this will not be the first time.

The only way to stop the cycle, no matter what cycle, racial intolerance, spousal abuse, child abuse, u name it, the cycle will not be broken until tolerance is shown by both sides.

If he was being heckled, it does not make it rite for him to spout off in this manner. Two wrongs never make a rite.

And I am sorry, I have never retaliated in such a manner. I will not tolerate such behavior, but I will never retaliate by spouting off and repeatedly calling someone else names. As far as I am concerned, that almost makes you worse than the person who did the taunting. People have to rise above these type of occasions. Tough yes, impossible, not by a long shot. U never come out smelling like roses if you get down to the same level as the ones giving dirty shots to you.

I hate being a spelling snob, but it should be "right" not "rite".

Rising above is easier said than done. Sometimes we just get pushed too far. Everyone has a breaking point. My point is that maybe these guys aren't complete victims here. Its not like he went out on the street and started randomly throwing racial slurs at every black person he saw. They wanted a reaction, and they got one, a very nasty one.

[chuckles19]

Nothing justify's what Mr. Richards said. Period. There is nothing those two guys could've said to him to justify what he said back. If he was having that much trouble, he should've told them to quit then asked them to be escorted out. So what if the tape was edited? So what if they were being racist towards him? That makes what he said okay? Not a chance in my view.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I hate being a spelling snob, but it should be "right" not "rite".

Rising above is easier said than done. Sometimes we just get pushed too far. Everyone has a breaking point. My point is that maybe these guys aren't complete victims here.

And the true measure of the character of a man is how one reacts in these situations.

[Temporary_User]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This is certainly racist. Sure there's a way someone could think of using ****** in jest (not really funny when used by a white person since they lost the right to say it) but this is clearly racism. He says "Throw them out! They're ******s! They're ******s! They're ******s!"

Clearly racism.

Lost the right to say it?
I'm going to quote the U.S. constitution, since this is somewhat of an American term.
When they added the 14th amendment, they didnt throw out the 1st.
Am I saying that it is right to say it? No.
Same with the cracker comments, both races are allowed to say it, however I think most would agree that it is wrong.

I read some of the comments from the original article, and APPARENTLY a guy that was at the show said that it was the two gentlemen in the crowd that started with the racial comments, they were heckling him for quite some time and then finally "kramer" lost it.
I believe this because it would explain why at the start of the video people were laughing @ the hanging w/ a fork comment. It would be my assumption that the heckling went back and forth for quite some time, then the camera got turned on, and it finally got out of control.
Obviously both parties were in the wrong.
The debate now is, since "kramer" is in the public eye, is it any more or less wrong for him to use racial remarks.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I hate being a spelling snob, but it should be "right" not "rite".

Rising above is easier said than done. Sometimes we just get pushed too far. Everyone has a breaking point. My point is that maybe these guys aren't complete victims here. Its not like he went out on the street and started randomly throwing racial slurs at every black person he saw. They wanted a reaction, and they got one, a very nasty one.

Yes, I know perfectly well it is right, not rite. But I prefer to use that, just like some prefer to use lol, lmao, rofl, etc. If you want to nit pic, so be it.

yes, rising above the occasion is easier said than done, but that is what builds character. And yes, it might be easier said than done, but when u (I know, you not u, I prefer to use u) get pushed too far and u (I know, you, not u, but I prefer to use u) reach your breaking point, better u ( I know, you, not u, prefer to use u) turn your back and walk away.

I never implied one side was a victim, the other side was not. It usually takes 2 ( I know, two, not 2, not too either, not to either, but I prefer to use 2) to tango, but when only one wants to tango and not the other, better u ( I know, you not u, but I prefer to use u) get off the dance floor before u (I know, you, not u, but I prefer to use u) step on someone's feet.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Lost the right to say it?

Holy crap.. It's a derogetory term, I won't argue that. But it's still derogetory when black people use it. This isn't part of the discussion though. I was just illustrating that white people are automatically tagged racist when they use it.

[corporatejay]

I am not sure what was more disturbing... Richard's rant or the fact that there were actually people cheering him on at the start of it. (Particularly the comment regarding the fork).

I think at first people thought he was "joking" like sure it was distasteful humour but look at family guy, that show is all about inappropriateness.

It wasn't until he started getting angry and spiteful that people knew he was really "kidding" and got offended, at least that's how I saw it.

Seriously, if he was joking about the fork comment, and sorta laughed it off would you have considered it as hurtful or it because you know he was being hateful in his rant (an advantage of hindsight).

[Jayems]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I think at first people thought he was "joking" like sure it was distasteful humour but look at family guy, that show is all about inappropriateness.

It wasn't until he started getting angry and spiteful that people knew he was really "kidding" and got offended, at least that's how I saw it.

Seriously, if he was joking about the fork comment, and sorta laughed it off would you have considered it as hurtful or it because you know he was being hateful in his rant (an advantage of hingsight).

I got the same feeling. When I go to a comedy club, i expect to laugh, so I guess it makes it easier to laugh.. know what i mean? You expect what they say to be funny, so you are predisposed to laugh before the punchline..

I just think once people computed the punchline, they realized exactly what he said.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Barnes

On what ****ing planet were you born and raised on to think that by NOT USING racist terms is being politically correct? This has absolutly nothing to do with political correctness.

Your reaction has to do with political correctness. Calling someone some derogatory comments in a heated exchange is what it is. The sky isn't falling. No one got hurt.

Have you ever even seen a stand up routine? Comedians get heckled ALL THE TIME. The professionals can handle themselves and can shut them up without using (in your eyes politically uncorrect in everyone else's racist) ignorance and hate.

I don't know what level of derogatory comments were first leveled at him. Was his ethnic background trashed? I don't know. Perhaps the club should have removed these hecklers for the prior comments they made before Richards went on his rant. Unless you've seen what set Richards off you can't pretend it was ordinary heckling.

And once again, you have polluted a thread with irrelevant points like "if the filmer had permission to film in the club" or, "had some association with the two black men". How is this of any business of anyone?

I just wonder if Richards was set up. Whoever was filming was probably doing it without consent. If the filmer was with the other two they might have been heckling a little aggressively just to make the video more interesting. I'm not suggesting that they made him say what he did. I'm just suggesting a plausible motive for their goading.

What I do think is obvious is that this person didn't just happen to start filming when Richards went off. The guy choose not to show us what got Richards riled.

In any case there was a verbal battle taking place and Richards said more than he probably wished he had. I for one am not going to label him a "racist" for a moment of misjudgment.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I got the same feeling. When I go to a comedy club, i expect to laugh, so I guess it makes it easier to laugh.. know what i mean? You expect what they say to be funny, so you are predisposed to laugh before the punchline..

I just think once people computed the punchline, they realized exactly what he said.

something like that, but more along the lines of eddie murphy raw/delirious.

so many people watch that and laugh, but he seriously makes fun of gays A LOT.......do i think eddie murphy hates gays? no.

was he doing it to be hateful? no.....so you can laugh...his tone is goofy, he's chuckling, there isn't anger there.

People probably though richards was doing the same thing at first, making an off colour joke, then realized he was doing it out of anger, and didn't find it so funny.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

i don't think he is saying it was ok to say what he did. He is simply saying that his remarks may just have been from being aggitated from what ever was going on in his life....and doesn't mean he is really a racist person. Thats what I got from his post. If that is wrong CB let me know.

Yeah I don't think what he said was appropriate. I also, doubt what the two hecklers said was appropriate. He might have been on edge already but, something set him off and the Filmer isn't telling us.

Say you were married to a women for 15 years and somewhere during that 15 years there was a fight and you called your wife a bit-h. That one instance shouldn't allow the world to characterize you as a verbally abusive husband. You just lost it once. It's not how you normally behave. Now say if once in that 15 years you beat up your wife and put her in the hospital. Would it be correct to call you a wife abuser? Probably. The difference was the seriousness of the offense. Richards was in a shouting match with two guys. We don't even know what all was said to him. He used some bad words. End of story. If Richards verbally attacked two black men like that when they were just sitting minding their own business you might have something. Richards was engaged in a verbal shouting match. We are not even certain that he was the first to raise the level of rhetoric.

[Cube Inmate]

I can't read the whole thread, and can't view the video, but I've read enough to get the jist of what happened. There's a point some people are missing:

It's not the choice of words that defines racism...it's the fact that race was brought into this at all. Would this have been any different if Richards had called out those "black" guys? It's the intent, not the words that are used.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yes, I know perfectly well it is right, not rite. But I prefer to use that, just like some prefer to use lol, lmao, rofl, etc. If you want to nit pic, so be it.

yes, rising above the occasion is easier said than done, but that is what builds character. And yes, it might be easier said than done, but when u (I know, you not u, I prefer to use u) get pushed too far and u (I know, you, not u, but I prefer to use u) reach your breaking point, better u ( I know, you, not u, prefer to use u) turn your back and walk away.

I never implied one side was a victim, the other side was not. It usually takes 2 ( I know, two, not 2, not too either, not to either, but I prefer to use 2) to tango, but when only one wants to tango and not the other, better u ( I know, you not u, but I prefer to use u) get off the dance floor before u (I know, you, not u, but I prefer to use u) step on someone's feet.

okay, point taken...rite is somehow short for right..rite? how is it any better to abbreviate right to rite?..you cut out one letter. At least lol, lmao, rofl, cut down the statement substantially. Whatever. Back to topic.

You're right, he should've taken the high road. But he didn't. For whatever reason, he snapped. Is it fair to paint him as an all out racist now? Maybe it was one lapse in judgement. Who knows, maybe he is a racist. But without some kind of pattern of behaviour that suggests he's a racist, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that he just made a really stupid mistake here.