[PGT] Flames 4 Caps 1

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Red

Their D coverage is hardly structured

But yes the advanced stats are better. Just like Eakin's oiler were

But if you watched this team for the last 4-5 years you would know the defense corps is lauded because of their offense and not their defensive responsibility. They brought in hamonic to be the steady eddie d man, but he hasnt been great so far

Their advanced stats are better and their actual stats are better to show for it. Their record is better than it was at this time last year or the year before, they have more goals for and less goals against, which tells me they are more successful

Ive mentioned this in other threads, i dont know what some of you are expecting. It feels like short of an 82-0 season where the flames shut everyone out 10-0, they wont meet expectations. Based on the last 4 or 5 years of this franchise, based on the personnel they have available, based on the league wide parity, the flames are doing pretty fantastic

[Beninho]

Ah, I have missed seeing Bartkowski get manhandled in front of net, make bonehead plays, skate with his head down, and get cycled in his own end for his 10 minutes a night. There are #7 Dmen and then there are Dmen that should not be in the NHL. Bartkowski is so ####ing bad, he's literally everything you don't want a Dman to be. Small, weak, poor IQ. I guess he can skate in a straight line well.

He should be only used in case of emergencies, if there's an injury Andersson should be called up. His job should be to warm the press box and never play.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Red

But they were playing great before GG. Thats the point of me asking.

this is patently false

even the season they made the playoffs under hartley, they did it under the cloud of having to make 11 come from behind 3rd period victories(because they weren't playing well enough to have a lead, something the flames are good at now and have a 38-0 or something ridiculous after leading after 2). also they could not have asked the hockey gods to be gifted a better matchup in the 1st round that year

dont forget, glen came in because the flames were so bad the year before we were able to get tkachuk. once teams figured out the only way the flames could score was off the rush, they blocked the stretch pass and everything dried up

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

But they were playing great before GG. Thats the point of me asking. I see players taking a step back with GG at the helm but can't pinpoint any that have improved from previous play.
Maybe a coincidence. But still, when can we say wow, GG made this happen?

So far we have advanced stats. They are clearly better.
But the actual hockey results are underwhelming. Poor special teams, players playing poorly, terrible GF vs GA results. To me those are the true indicators of well coached teams.

The actual hockey results have this team 4 games about .500 which largely meets my expectations so far.

Underlying stats + good record + best players performing well (Brodie aside) is a pretty good combination of indicators.

How are you determining which items are "true indicators" of a well coached team and which ones to dismiss?

[Jore]

if barkowski really somehow makes the line up again i'm not going to watch the game. he isn't a good ahl player at this point, and no time to mess with the lineup like when you just had your best game of the season.

i'll save my full anger for tomorrow, but just terrible if true

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Jore

if barkowski really somehow makes the line up again i'm not going to watch the game. he isn't a good ahl player at this point, and no time to mess with the lineup like when you just had your best game of the season.

i'll save my full anger for tomorrow, but just terrible if true

IMO, who really cares who the coach puts in. If Kulak was a bit nicked up it isn't like he is going to tell why a player is coming in. That is if Bartowski actually plays and Kulak just didn't decide to take an extra spin. A lot of huffing over a move that hasn't even been made on a bottom pairing.

It amuses me how easily people get triggered.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Ah, I have missed seeing Bartkowski get manhandled in front of net, make bonehead plays, skate with his head down, and get cycled in his own end for his 10 minutes a night. There are #7 Dmen and then there are Dmen that should not be in the NHL. Bartkowski is so ####ing bad, he's literally everything you don't want a Dman to be. Small, weak, poor IQ. I guess he can skate in a straight line well.

He should be only used in case of emergencies, if there's an injury Andersson should be called up. His job should be to warm the press box and never play.

You don't need to miss him too much, apparently he may draw into the line up tomorrow.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

But they were playing great before GG. Thats the point of me asking. I see players taking a step back with GG at the helm but can't pinpoint any that have improved from previous play.

Maybe a coincidence. But still, when can we say wow, GG made this happen?



So far we have advanced stats. They are clearly better.

But the actual hockey results are underwhelming. Poor special teams, players playing poorly, terrible GF vs GA results. To me those are the true indicators of well coached teams.

The actual hockey results are underwhelming?

How about a 17 point improvement in the standings on the previous year while playing a system that is set up for sustainable success?

Oh, and we’re on pace to finish with even more points than that this year.

I constantly see this desire for the Flames to be more consistent, but that just isn't reality in the NHL these days. No team in the league is going to come out and win every game as easily as the Flames did last night. We are also tied for fifth in the league with 12 wins.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Red

But they were playing great before GG. Thats the point of me asking. I see players taking a step back with GG at the helm but can't pinpoint any that have improved from previous play.
Maybe a coincidence. But still, when can we say wow, GG made this happen?

So far we have advanced stats. They are clearly better.
But the actual hockey results are underwhelming. Poor special teams, players playing poorly, terrible GF vs GA results. To me those are the true indicators of well coached teams.

They are progressing still. The top line is playing against other top lines this year, and are mostly dominating. That allows better match-ups for other lines.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

The actual hockey results have this team 4 games about .500 which largely meets my expectations so far.

Underlying stats + good record + best players performing well (Brodie aside) is a pretty good combination of indicators.

How are you determining which items are "true indicators" of a well coached team and which ones to dismiss?

But if not for Smith this team is barely .500.

And I Look at indicators that have been used for decades. Fancy stats are for nerds

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Red

But if not for Smith this team is barely .500.

And I Look at indicators that have been used for decades. Fancy stats are for nerds

I'm not a huge fancy stats guy but have started to pay more attention to them. I do think that some of the historical stats like plus/minus are a total waste of time though.

Smith is a factor to be sure, but he is 12th in GAA (2.61) and 11th in SVP (0.922)

I think he is providing the Flames with good goaltending but we are so accustomed to a tire fire back there that the perception is that it has been out of this world.

I'm not discounting his role in the strong start, but particularly in this latest string of strong play and wins, he hasn't had to steal many. He's giving the team the type of goaltending they should expect from a #1, but haven't had for a few years.

So when we say if they didn't have Smith they would be less than .500 does that assume they would have an inadequate goalie in his place? What if they had a guy like Ben Bishop or Marc Andre Fleury (injured I know)?

Where would any good team be with cruddy tending? It is hard to find examples of teams with good records that aren't getting good to great netminding.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Red

But if not for Smith this team is barely .500.

And I Look at indicators that have been used for decades. Fancy stats are for nerds

Like what? Point totals?
goals for?
goals against?
2 points out of 1st in the division by American thanksgiving-ish?

What metrics do you feel like they are lacking in?

You can prefer bob hartleys more loose style, it was definitely more exciting, but I also find winning games exciting, and the team has done almost nothing but that for nearly a calendar year now

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

But if not for Smith this team is barely .500.



And I Look at indicators that have been used for decades. Fancy stats are for nerds

If not for McDavid the oilers would have 0 wins.

If not for Stamkos, Kucherov wouldn’t have as many goals.

If not for Carey Price, the Canadians wouldn’t ever make the playoffs.

If not for the rain, plants would never grow.

The goalie is part of the team and we found ourselves a good one. Deal with it

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Wes Gilbertson‏ @WesGilbertson
#Flames D Brett Kulak skated a lot longer than any other blue-liner today. I'm guessing D Matt Bartkowski draws in tomorrow against Blue Jackets.

ok gulutzan, #### like this pisses me off

Kind of makes sense, actually.

Flames have proven to play to the level of their opponent. They play really well against the better teams in the league, so if you’re going to throw a Bartkowski in, an overall strong team game might offset it.

Gully is known for being a player’s coach. Practice hard, put the time in, and he’ll put you in a position to be successful. Sometimes it works (Hamilton last night), sometimes it doesn’t (Lack in Detroit).

Important thing is they continue to build off the momentum it creates when it does work and don’t let it drag you down when it doesn’t. I’d say that’s working pretty well thus far this season.

[Itse]

Early Vezina names thrown around are guys like Vasilevsky, Bobrovsky, Rinne, Quick, Jones, Howard, Crawford...

I haven't seen anyone seriously mention Smith.

All good NHL starters carry their teams now and then.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Except if anyone deserves to sit it's Brodie, not Kulak

It doesn't work that way. It never has worked that way, and it never will work that way.

[CroFlames]

Andersson should be up over Bart IMHO.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Kind of makes sense, actually.

Flames have proven to play to the level of their opponent. They play really well against the better teams in the league, so if you’re going to throw a Bartkowski in, an overall strong team game might offset it.

Gully is known for being a player’s coach. Practice hard, put the time in, and he’ll put you in a position to be successful. Sometimes it works (Hamilton last night), sometimes it doesn’t (Lack in Detroit).

Important thing is they continue to build off the momentum it creates when it does work and don’t let it drag you down when it doesn’t. I’d say that’s working pretty well thus far this season.

To me Bartowski busting his hump in practice is what keeps him from being waived and sent to the AHL.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Andersson should be up over Bart IMHO.

Why would you want Andersson sitting in the press box and playing once every 2 weeks?

He is playing a TON in Stockton which is exactly what he needs to be doing.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by Red

But if not for Smith this team is barely .500.

And I Look at indicators that have been used for decades. Fancy stats are for nerds

and if it weren't for Elliot in the playoffs last year, they may have made it out of the first round. Certainly wouldn't have been swept