[PGT] Flames 4 Caps 1

[nik-]

Multiple problems can exist simultaneously. Discussing one of the problems does not negate the existence of other problems.

Granted, a radically complex concept.

[bax]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't understand why people just see some wins and determine that nothing that makes the coach mediocre exists anymore.

We had wins last year too. This is a brutally inconsistent team, so perhaps lets see that go away first before we start getting smug about people that don't like the coach.

I don’t think anyone is being too smug. Personally, I tend to get frustrated when people place criticism on a coach or player that I feel is undeserved.

There is more parity in this league than ever before. The team is going to win a bunch of games and lose their fair share as well.

There is always room for improvement, but when the same posters over and over only recommendation is to fire the coach it becomes exhausting.

Also I don’t feel like “brutally inconsistent” is accurate. Other than the first 20 games last year when the team was adjusting to the system we have seen typical hot streaks and cold streaks just like every other team in the league

[nik-]

Originally Posted by bax

I don’t think anyone is being too smug. Personally, I tend to get frustrated when people place criticism on a coach or player that I feel is undeserved.

There is more parity in this league than ever before. The team is going to win a bunch of games and lose their fair share as well.

There is always room for improvement, but when the same posters over and over only recommendation is to fire the coach it becomes exhausting.

Also I don’t feel like “brutally inconsistent” is accurate. Other than the first 20 games last year when the team was adjusting to the system we have seen typical hot streaks and cold streaks just like every other team in the league

Stuff like this

Originally Posted by bax

I find it funny that some posters seem to view every game in a vacuum and fail to see the larger picture here.

Is smug. It's also hilariously ironic because this is based on a short stretch of games where we've played well and this same thing has happened before. We've had good stretches. You mention his strategies and philosophies to be competitive over a season, that hasn't been proven at all.

When we actually see a consistent competitive team, not this up and down roller coaster ride it's been under Gulatzan, I'll change my opinion completely.

Until then, he's a pretty meh coach to me.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think that most teams in the NHL appear to be inconsistent, not because their performance varies so widely - just because of league parity. The talent pool is spread more evenly - so you have few teams that are distinctly better than their opponents.There's a big glut of good teams that also have flaws. There's a couple more complete teams and a couple really bad teams. And then a big squishy middle of sameness

But I would also say that the team has been playing consistently well for the last dozen or so games. I don't view this season as being much of a roller coaster at all to be honest.Are the Flames more or less consistent than the bulk of other NHL teams? Feels like they are a pretty typical NHL squad.

Last season was a roller coaster to be sure, with a terrible start and then an extended hot streak required to make it to the post-season. That is not what you want to see. But I don't think that is what we are seeing this year.

[Dion]

http://flames.ice.nhl.com/club/galle...n=/photos&pg=1

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I think that most teams in the NHL appear to be inconsistent, not because their performance varies so widely - just because of league parity. The talent pool is spread more evenly - so you have few teams that are distinctly better than their opponents.There's a big glut of good teams that also have flaws. There's a couple more complete teams and a couple really bad teams. And then a big squishy middle of sameness

But I would also say that the team has been playing consistently well for the last dozen or so games. I don't view this season as being much of a roller coaster at all to be honest.Are the Flames more or less consistent than the bulk of other NHL teams? Feels like they are a pretty typical NHL squad.

Last season was a roller coaster to be sure, with a terrible start and then an extended hot streak required to make it to the post-season. That is not what you want to see. But I don't think that is what we are seeing this year.

This is a good stretch no doubt, personally, I just want to see a more protracted timeline of this, because we bit on a good stretch last year too. We're not going to win every game, and we're going to have duds, but as you allude to this team has been pretty up and down.

I just wish people would chill with the "where are the coach doubters?" style posts. That's all. People who don't like the coach aren't doing so with zero reasoning.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by nik-

Stuff like this



Is smug. It's also hilariously ironic because this is based on a short stretch of games where we've played well and this same thing has happened before. We've had good stretches. You mention his strategies and philosophies to be competitive over a season, that hasn't been proven at all.

When we actually see a consistent competitive team, not this up and down roller coaster ride it's been under Gulatzan, I'll change my opinion completely.

Until then, he's a pretty meh coach to me.

I didn't think it was as smug as "hilariously ironic".

In the past calendar year, they have been a hundred point pace team. I know this is ignoring last year's start. I also know it is ignoring the playoffs. Personally, I don't hang those things on him. The team could be playing more consistently, certainly. But my sense is that the realism of what people expect doesn't jive with pro sports necessarily. The absolute best teams in this league are going to get out played approximately 3/10 times.

I just don't think there's anything wrong with reserving judgement at this point. GG and the team have been trending steadily up the last year. Instead of saying, he's a meh coach, like it's some kind of absolute, why not say that you're unsure right now, but based on how they do this season, he may be better than I expected (or not).

I think it's the absolute-isms that are frankly based on severely limited insight that rub people the wrong way when it comes to Gulutzan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

This is a good stretch no doubt, personally, I just want to see a more protracted timeline of this, because we bit on a good stretch last year too. We're not going to win every game, and we're going to have duds, but as you allude to this team has been pretty up and down.

I just wish people would chill with the "where are the coach doubters?" style posts. That's all. People who don't like the coach aren't doing so with zero reasoning.

Both sides are digging their heels in. I would say some people have articulated legitimate concerns about the coach (e.g. player usage, match-ups etc) while others have been a little more irrational in their thoughts.

Just as on the pro coach side, there has been a mix of well articulated positions and rather poorly formed opinions.

And when people argue on the extremes it creates more of it.

But I don't see it being an issue from only one side.

[stone hands]

Have they really been that hot and cold? First 20 games last season without the top 2 players on the team missing camp + new coach, they had a very poor slow start. Ever since chad Johnson bailed them out thy have been playing incredible hockey since about December last year

This year they have looked unprepared a few times in the beginning + Detroit, but by and large have had pretty good showings, sprinkled with the occasional great showing like last night


(I don’t hang the playoffs on gg at all, nothing you can do with goaltending that sub-par)

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by nik-

Multiple problems can exist simultaneously. Discussing one of the problems does not negate the existence of other problems.

Granted, a radically complex concept.

Ha, and you're complaining about other posters smugness? Maybe try being less condescending yourself.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

Multiple problems can exist simultaneously. Discussing one of the problems does not negate the existence of other problems.

Granted, a radically complex concept.

I think it's more about the PGT thread after a win being a place to celebrate the win and not harp on the bad things.

It's like the dressing room after a win. Even after an ugly one a coach rarely reams you out. It's "Well it wasn't pretty but we'll take it. See you on the bus."

The players (posters) don't need to be reminded of the faults. The vast majority of us see them. That's what video sessions and practice (other threads) are for.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

Stuff like this



Is smug. It's also hilariously ironic because this is based on a short stretch of games where we've played well and this same thing has happened before. We've had good stretches. You mention his strategies and philosophies to be competitive over a season, that hasn't been proven at all.

When we actually see a consistent competitive team, not this up and down roller coaster ride it's been under Gulatzan, I'll change my opinion completely.

Until then, he's a pretty meh coach to me.

I'm not sure what standard you expect for consistency. This year, at the quarter mark, they've lost 2 in a row only twice, and there's no losing streaks longer than that. They've had two 3 game winning streaks and two 2 game streaks (including the current one). In comparison, the Pens have had four two game losing streaks, three two game winning streaks and one three game winning streak.

Last year, after the slow first quarter and its learning curve, they had 5 two game losing streaks, and one four game losing streak. Against four two game winning streaks, and one each of 3, 6 and 10 game winning streaks.

Their record is pretty consistent and better than most teams in that dept.

[corporatejay]

Came in for the celebration. Read a bunch of posts from arm chair coaches who likely a) don't understand his systems at all; b) probably don't understand what a system is; c) think the flames have to win every game and if they lose they are terrible; and d) probably haven't coached above timbits.

[bax]

Originally Posted by nik-

Stuff like this



Is smug. It's also hilariously ironic because this is based on a short stretch of games where we've played well and this same thing has happened before. We've had good stretches. You mention his strategies and philosophies to be competitive over a season, that hasn't been proven at all.

When we actually see a consistent competitive team, not this up and down roller coaster ride it's been under Gulatzan, I'll change my opinion completely.

Until then, he's a pretty meh coach to me.

To each their own I suppose. I don't consider pointing out philosophies that are being over looked by some posters as smug.

I also do not see anything "hilariously ironic" in what I said? When did I mention that my view is based off a short stretch of games? My opinion on Gulutzan's coaching has been formed over the past hundred odd games with him behind the bench.

What about this team has been a roller coaster? They have had hot stretches and cold stretches. If you're expecting the Flames (or any team in the league for that matter) to play a consistent game over the course of the season then you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Even the best teams in the league get outplayed sometimes. This due to the parity of the league and just the nature of the sport. Sometimes guys have off nights, it happens.

Do you also consider Mike Sullivan, Bruce Boudreau, and Joel Quenville meh coaches because their teams go through cold stretches?

I'm not even trying to argue that Gulutzan is an amazing coach- I'm just pointing out that he isn't terrible like some posters say. I honestly don't know what some of your expectations of consistency are. Do you need 60 plus wins in a season for confirmation that someone is a good coach?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Cali his point is that whenver someone points out the fact that GG is terrible you chime in with how the persons stupid, ignorant or not watching the game.

There is no evidence, based on what you are saying any coach that has not been swept in the playoffs is a better coach; you know because of the evidence.

You keep bringing up the sweep last year. You are starting to sound like a oiler fan harping on the past. Why not talk about this year, because you know relevant evidence.

The team at the 20 game point has won 4 more games than they have lost. That result has them in the playoffs 2 points out from the division lead with a game in hand on LA. All this with the team knowing they can do better. I think the team is starting to get in a rhythm so let's see what happens.

Is a team in a decent position today. I think so. Are they in a better than last year. I think you would be hard pressed to say no to that question.

[FBI]

sooooo... I think it's a pretty good sign that the flames players are photo bombing again.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FBI

sooooo... I think it's a pretty good sign that the flames players are photo bombing again.

They're loosening up a bit. I dont know what the deal is but it happens. I wonder if Gulutzan might be overthinking things because we all know that really good, creative hockey generally happens more when players are just playing, not over-thinking, not gripping the sticks too tightly, etc.

So Chucky and Backlund photobombing Leslie is an indication that guys are loose and spirits are high, but again, winning tends to paper over a lot of cracks.

We take the points, roll along and stay positive.

[neo45]

I think it is a little bit ridiculous how people assume a single criticism of the coaching staff means you want them all fired, instead of them just making adjustments to stuff that clearly isn't working. We have a dead last penalty kill despite getting Vezina quality goaltending. Who is the blame for that besides the coaching staff?

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Robbob

You keep bringing up the sweep last year. You are starting to sound like a oiler fan harping on the past. Why not talk about this year, because you know relevant evidence.

The team at the 20 game point has won 4 more games than they have lost. That result has them in the playoffs 2 points out from the division lead with a game in hand on LA. All this with the team knowing they can do better. I think the team is starting to get in a rhythm so let's see what happens.

Is a team in a decent position today. I think so. Are they in a better than last year. I think you would be hard pressed to say no to that question.

the point is the flames finished in a playoff spot, which ended up meaning jack ####.

So we should give GG all the benefit for this season and no doubt for last?

Is he your cousin or something?

[stone hands]

What part of watching Brian Elliot sewer this teams playoffs did you miss last spring