Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[jammies]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

A friend of mine did the video work for Nenshi’s arena plan video. It was done about 2 weeks prior to the video being released, which was before the Flames saying that they were done.

As if, everyone knows it takes 2-3 hours tops to create a professional presentation using MS Paint, so adding video to the mix using Windows Movie Maker can't be more than an hour's extra work.

[stone hands]

the only way the flames leave calgary is if murray edwards has so much clout in the NHL that he can veto someone willing to buy the flames and keep them here

the only way murray edwards can veto keeping a team in a city he heavily invests in, and is by all accounts a charitable member of the community for the last 30 years is if he is such a petty, bitter man, that he would remove a pillar of the community out of spite because they won't gift him a new rink

if any of the above are true, i'd rather see the team leave than stay any day

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by stone hands

the only way the flames leave calgary is if murray edwards has so much clout in the NHL that he can veto someone willing to buy the flames and keep them here

the only way murray edwards can veto keeping a team in a city he heavily invests in, and is by all accounts a charitable member of the community for the last 30 years is if he is such a petty, bitter man, that he would remove a pillar of the community out of spite because they won't gift him a new rink

if any of the above are true, i'd rather see the team leave than stay any day

None of it will happen, despite what Manhattenboy has been saying. They're playing the playbook and citizens are smarter to it than they used to be.

If the Flames truly wanted a gift they should have been about 150x smarter and more prepared throughout the years. They could have had everything they wanted with a proposal ready to go before the '09 economy crash and they could have again had an excellent deal between 2011 and 2014.

Instead they just blundered along until new economic conditions and a smarter, more educated public said "go **** yourselves".

Now they're pouting publicly, while panicking behind closed doors. They'll be back.

[jayswin]

The most hilarious part of this whole arena fiasco is that through all the discontent amongst citizens on here and social media (all local media read CP) you will never hear anything significant about it in any major publication in Calgary. Weird (see: not weird)

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by stone hands

the only way the flames leave calgary is if murray edwards has so much clout in the NHL that he can veto someone willing to buy the flames and keep them here

Or if Calgary's economic foundations continue to erode and there isn't anybody left willing to buy the Flames with the intent of keeping them here.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Or if Calgary's economic foundations continue to erode and there isn't anybody left willing to buy the Flames with the intent of keeping them here.

If the situation is that dire in Calgary I would suggest that the league would be contracting to about 20-25 teams. Even in a recession/collapse, Calgary boasts a better market than a sizable portion of the current league.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Or if Calgary's economic foundations continue to erode and there isn't anybody left willing to buy the Flames with the intent of keeping them here.

Arizona.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Arizona.

Arizona was being declared the primo relocation candidate for Winnipeg for years, until it suddenly wasn't. What's going on in other markets is largely irrelevant. If a market decides one day it wants to cut loose it'll cut loose, especially if big American money is willing to pony up in exchange.

The only reason Arizona is still around is because the taxpayers are keeping it on life support. Calgary's willingness to do the same has been clearly (and rightly) demonstrated the last several months, so where's Calgary's version of the Illitch family going to come from? Whoever that's expected to be has probably already packed up and left town with the rest of the oil industry.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Or if Calgary's economic foundations continue to erode and there isn't anybody left willing to buy the Flames with the intent of keeping them here.

In which case, the hundreds of millions of public dollars that the Flames want becomes even more important for the City to manage with prudence.

[edslunch]

I think the future depends in large part on why CSEC owns the Flames. In the past ownership has been very community oriented - their philanthropy has been well documented. I don't know where the current makeup of ownership stands but here are the scenarios I see depending on their attitude. (Note I'm assuming they will stay or sell, moving while retaining ownership doesn't seem likely)

1. Community first, as long as we don't lose (much) money
   • They'll work out a reasonable deal
   • I don't think ownership is here
2. Community first, but want to make a decent profit
   • They'll work a reasonable deal, or sell to local interests if possible
3. Profits first, community second
   • They'll hold out for a good deal
   • If they can't get one they'll sell, ideally to local interests
   • Ownership is most likely here
4. Profit>>>>>>Community
   • Play hardball
   • If the city doesn't roll over they sell to highest bidder
   • Ownership is acting like they're here

[browna]

Goes without saying, again, but all of this goes away if the mayor decides on an Olympic bid (which means they will get the games by default) to go forward.

I think that’s where both sides have left it right now, as that should be sorted in the next 6 months; though then what the area around the arena looks like and who’s in control of that will be the next debate...but, like 37 years ago when the Dome was built, the City gets a big subsidy on the arena construction costs.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

The way I remember it.
1. Nenshi unveils plan for east village including arena
2. Flames come out and say they're done(complete with Bettman)
3. Arena became an issue
4. City released their proposal
5. Flames release their proposal(excluding key asks)
6. City releases Flames full proposal
7. Majority of citizens agreed with the City/Nenshi that the Flames ask was ridiculous
8. Citizens spoke and re-elected Nenshi
Nenshi cares about an Arena, just not under the blackmail conditions the Flames have demanded.

The only event that isn't listed in there is the Ken King phone call to the Mayor's office which asked if he was going to accept the Flames offer or not. I can't recall if his phone call was prior to Nenshi's releasing of the Arena plan or if it was right after.

I thought it was before, which caused Nenshi to release the arena plan, but I could be mistaken.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

The only event that isn't listed in there is the Ken King phone call to the Mayor's office which asked if he was going to accept the Flames offer or not. I can't recall if his phone call was prior to Nenshi's releasing of the Arena plan or if it was right after.

I thought it was before, which caused Nenshi to release the arena plan, but I could be mistaken.

it was after

nenshi releases plan

same day kk calls mayors office

next day flames take their ball and go home

[Barnes]

Also missing from that timeline is the fact that the CMLC, Stampede, CSEC, the City, Victoria Park, Ramsey, and Inglewood CAs all where working on an area redevelopment plan long before point 1.

Nenshi didn’t just dream up an arena in that area.

[Tyler]

Victoria Park Master Plan Coming in January

The Calgary Municipal Land Corporation will reveal its master plan in January for the Victoria Park neighbourhood in Calgary, adjacent to the Calgary Stampede, and the plan includes provision for a new arena, RENX has learned.

Michael Brown, president and chief executive of the wholly owned subsidiary of the City of Calgary, says the master plan lays out a blueprint for what the community eventually will look like.

“Right now, we really only have Plan A and that’s with a new arena. If in five, six, seven years from now, there’s been no progress on a new arena then we’re going to have to go back and revisit that one. But, for now we’re focused on that’s where the arena will go.”

https://renx.ca/new-calgary-flames-a...7SLPjc.twitter

[socalwingfan]

Flames in the running for worst stadium scam in the Deadspin year end awards. Ownership must be so proud

https://deadspin.com/deadspin-awards...cam-1820448100

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by socalwingfan

Flames in the running for worst stadium scam in the Deadspin year end awards. Ownership must be so proud

https://deadspin.com/deadspin-awards...cam-1820448100

Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi has led the opposition to the Flames’ demands for a new arena, so the NHL has targeted him as its main obstacle to getting the city to make a deal. With Nenshi up for reelection on October 16, the Flames and the NHL have taken their negotiations public, with an unmistakable message to Calgarians: Vote him out or we’re out of here. Earlier this month, Bettman, flanked by Flames CEO Ken King, announced that fans “need to make your voice heard if you think the city is moving in the wrong direction.”

I'm glad it's as obvious to anyone outside Calgary as it was to many of us that live here. It's hard to tell with our media because they're playing the game with the Flames for the most part, so you don't ever get any of this published.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm glad it's as obvious to anyone outside Calgary as it was to many of us that live here. It's hard to tell with our media because they're playing the game with the Flames for the most part, so you don't ever get any of this published.

To be fair, during the whole fiasco, the Morning Show continually brought the issue up with Stephen Brunt when he was on, and he was vehemently against public money for private arenas and the way CSEC went about their business. If they really wanted to "toe the company line" so to speak, they wouldn't mention it at all during his interviews altogether.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Blarg

To be fair, during the whole fiasco, the Morning Show continually brought the issue up with Stephen Brunt when he was on, and he was vehemently against public money for private arenas and the way CSEC went about their business. If they really wanted to "toe the company line" so to speak, they wouldn't mention it at all during his interviews altogether.

I agree, but moreover, I just wanted to congratulate you on the correct usage of "toe the line".

Toe, not tow, everyone.

[Blarg]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree, but moreover, I just wanted to congratulate you on the correct usage of "toe the line".



Toe, not tow, everyone.

Knowledge is power, France is bacon.