The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

If management is losing confidence in GG then make the change now. Irritating that after all the work that was done in renewing our top player contracts we might well burn a year without much to show for it.

Yup, Gulutzan is killing the good work done by Treliving. Sadly, Treliving might have to be removed if he holds firm on Gulutzan. If he can’t admit a mistake, that is likely a pretty big strike against Treliving in the big picture as well.

[DAN0383]

GG would be a great assistant coach.

[Toonage]

Just curious, has there ever been an instance of a head coach moving into an assistant role rather than being fired?

[Kybb79]

Fire Cameron demote GG then bring in Sutter to show BT's pet how it's done.

[Jacks]

Not sure Sutter is the answer, L.A. is doing much better since he is gone. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't be great again with a fresh start on a new team. Don't know if he just "lost the room" or if the game is passing him by.

[SuperMatt18]

People want GG to shorten the bench and roll 2 lines only 15 games into the season? Sounds like a great way to make sure your top guys are injured or burnt out by game 50.

The bottom 6 has struggled and personally I feel like they need to play their way out of it - benching them isn’t going to help their confidence issues and GG can only play the guys he has on the roster. It’s not like it’s his fault we have too many old vets in the bottom line.

It shouldn’t be surprising though - people wanted GG fired 10 games into the season last year, and then again after they were swept in the first round of the playoffs but lost because of 7 soft goals in 4 games. He will never be accepted by lots on this board since he was never the “sexy” hire and was the one coach most didn’t want.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

People want GG to shorten the bench and roll 2 lines only 15 games into the season? Sounds like a great way to make sure your top guys are injured or burnt out by game 50.

The bottom 6 has struggled and personally I feel like they need to play their way out of it - benching them isn’t going to help their confidence issues and GG can only play the guys he has on the roster. It’s not like it’s his fault we have too many old vets in the bottom line.

It shouldn’t be surprising though - people wanted GG fired 10 games into the season last year, and then again after they were swept in the first round of the playoffs but lost because of 7 soft goals in 4 games. He will never be accepted by lots on this board since he was never the “sexy” hire and was the one coach most didn’t want.

I don't want him fired. I'm just openly questioning when the the promise of all these offseason upgrades is going to turn into reality on the ice. I'm willing to give him into 2018 this season before declaring a coaching change needs to be made. The reality is that he's going to coach out this season regardless of what happens as I can't see him getting fired for Cameron to take over. I do think that with all the picks given up to improve the roster today that he's probably not going to make it to the 3rd season of his contract if this team doesn't at the very least meet expectations which is probably getting into the 2nd round. I suppose losing a competitive first round series may be enough for Treliving to bring him back but it they just scrape into the playoffs and get smoked again I think there will be a lot of pressure for Treliving to move on.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't want him fired. I'm just openly questioning when the the promise of all these offseason upgrades is going to turn into reality on the ice. I'm willing to give him into 2018 this season before declaring a coaching change needs to be made. The reality is that he's going to coach out this season regardless of what happens as I can't see him getting fired for Cameron to take over. I do think that with all the picks given up to improve the roster today that he's probably not going to make it to the 3rd season of his contract if this team doesn't at the very least meet expectations which is probably getting into the 2nd round. I suppose losing a competitive first round series may be enough for Treliving to bring him back but it they just scrape into the playoffs and get smoked again I think there will be a lot of pressure for Treliving to move on.

Don’t get me wrong - I have no issue with critiquing the coaching. Lots of things could be done better, for me personally I hate who he throws out the first shift after a goal.

It’s more the constant calls for him to be fired, and the disrespectful nicknames, that I have an issue with. Unless the Flames win the cup with GG there is going to be a group of fans here that call for his head after every loss just because he wasn’t the guy they wanted.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Just curious, has there ever been an instance of a head coach moving into an assistant role rather than being fired?

didn't Edmonton try that with pat Quinn and he told them to get stuffed ?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Just curious, has there ever been an instance of a head coach moving into an assistant role rather than being fired?

Playfair did that didn’t he?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Playfair did that didn’t he?

I think you're right! As a Flames fan shame on me for not remembering that.

And now worth noting this is something the organization is not averse to.

[Fan in Exile]

No real interest in venting on Gulutzan although I can understand the frustration. Just thinking again how odd it is that Scorpion started this thread in the first place. I don't see anything about GG that would make anyone excited or feel like we hired the right guy. I really don't see anything exceptional about him or this team since he took over. We have a few stand-out players but no part of our game stands out. For all his imperfections, you could at least point to strengths as well as weaknesses under Hartley. What are the strengths of a GG-coached team?

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

No real interest in venting on Gulutzan although I can understand the frustration. Just thinking again how odd it is that Scorpion started this thread in the first place. I don't see anything about GG that would make anyone excited or feel like we hired the right guy. I really don't see anything exceptional about him or this team since he took over. We have a few stand-out players but no part of our game stands out. For all his imperfections, you could at least point to strengths as well as weaknesses under Hartley. What are the strengths of a GG-coached team?

Really is the crux of the discussion isn't it. He hasn't got them doing anything at an elite level. Really nothing you can point to that they would miss if he was fired. Waiting on the coach to get his act together. Waiting on our top pick to get his act together. Waiting and wondering if they are ever going to make some progress.

Seems like patience is the ONLY answer. Is patience going to produce results? Would they be better off making changes?

[442scotty]

I don’t know if he’s a good coach or not...

The top two lines are doing great and the bottom two are doing awful...

Don’t care for his 4th line utilization at all... Not crazy about him personally but I’m not qualified enough to say if he’s good or not... time will tell won’t it...

[edslunch]

I’m a believer of the Peter Maher adage that you don’t really know what a team is until the second quarter of the season. I’ll reserve judgement until then, but if this team isn’t killing it in year two of the same core,same system, same coach then there’s something seriously wrong

[CroFlames]

I wonder if they could do a hockey trade 1 for 1 GG for Coach V.

[Bourque's Twin]

On paper, this is the best Flames team in 10 years. They are 8-7-0 and their goalie has been playing like a vezina candidate. GG can't get all cylinders firing at once.

[bax]

15 games in and the same people are coming out of the wood work clamoring for the coach to be fired. I love how passionate the fans are here, but sometimes the discussion leads to some really hyperbolic statements.

There are no positives to having GG coach this team? As in there was positives when Hartley was the coach? Didn’t some of you ever get tired of repeatedly watching the Flames attempt an obvious stretch pass that the entire league clearly knew how to stop?

When the teams is executing the the system they move as a 5 Man Unit and look unstoppable a lot of the time. Gulutzan has brought in a system that although isn’t perfect, does represent a fast paced, possession brand of hockey that clearly works in the modern NHL.

He isn’t without his faults, but I seriously question some of the posters here who think cleaning house mid season (without our first or second) would be a good idea. You don’t have to approve of every move the coach makes, but at least be objective and see that there is a lot of good he has done here as well.

I’m not sure what some of you expect. It’s like you think the Flames have the best roster in the league and think we should win 70 games per season.

Realistically our roster lacks competitive depth as we have too many slow and overpaid players in the bottom six. I like our defense, but without Hamonic in the line up it becomes quite soft and prone to inconsistency in the defensive zone.

Also our third line really needs to start producing. Fortunately I think they have looked good the last couple of games and are close

[Enoch Root]

Is Gulutzan a smart hockey mind? Yes. Does he excel at the Xs and Os? I think so. Would I like him as an assistant coach, as part of the organization? Definitely.

But a head coach is more than those things. A head coach defines the team and personifies it. Ahead coach creates the character of the team. So let's look a little closer:

Do the Flames out work the opposition (overall)? I don't think so

Do they out hit, or physically dominate? No

Do they out-skate the opposition? Occasionally. And they aren't the fastest team, but they aren't the slowest either. And with the speed and talent of their D, I think they could out-skate the opposition a lot more, if they activated the D more.

Are they tactically dominant? Not often enough to say yes with any certainty

Are they more offensively creative? Definitely at times. But sometimes they look like they couldn't care less. IMO, there is more talent on the roster than there is creativity being demonstrated, relative to that talent level.

What is this team? What is their identity? For me, there is no team character.

I think there is plenty of talent. But I look up and down the roster and who is really excelling or blossoming under Gulutzan? Backlund? Maybe. Tkachuk? Definitely, but I think he is a star no matter who the coach is. Anyone else?

What about players that seem to be regressing under Gulutzan? Bennett obviously. Hamilton I don't know what to make of. Jankowski? Too early to tell, but we certainly cannot say that he came in and blossomed under Gulutzan. Same for Lazar. Same for Hamonic.

It's not that I dislike Gulutzan. He seems like a great hockey mind and a great guy. I am just having a hard time seeing what he is actually ACCOMPLISHING with a roster that in my opinion is laden with talent and potential.

It seems to me that Gulutzan coaches not to lose, instead of coaching to instill their own will. It seems to me that he has the team in a reactionary mindset instead of an aggressive mindset.

IMO, he is a coach for a young, rebuilding team that is learning the game. But he is not a coach for a team that needs to impose its will on other teams and take the next step towards dominance.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bax

15 games in and the same people are coming out of the wood work clamoring for the coach to be fired. I love how passionate the fans are here, but sometimes the discussion leads to some really hyperbolic statements.

There are no positives to having GG coach this team? As in there was positives when Hartley was the coach? Didn’t some of you ever get tired of repeatedly watching the Flames attempt an obvious stretch pass that the entire league clearly knew how to stop?

When the teams is executing the the system they move as a 5 Man Unit and look unstoppable a lot of the time. Gulutzan has brought in a system that although isn’t perfect, does represent a fast paced, possession brand of hockey that clearly works in the modern NHL.

He isn’t without his faults, but I seriously question some of the posters here who think cleaning house mid season (without our first or second) would be a good idea. You don’t have to approve of every move the coach makes, but at least be objective and see that there is a lot of good he has done here as well.

I’m not sure what some of you expect. It’s like you think the Flames have the best roster in the league and think we should win 70 games per season.

Realistically our roster lacks competitive depth as we have too many slow and overpaid players in the bottom six. I like our defense, but without Hamonic in the line up it becomes quite soft and prone to inconsistency in the defensive zone.

Also our third line really needs to start producing. Fortunately I think they have looked good the last couple of games and are close

You make some good points. I, for one, do not think Hartley was a better coach - exciting, passionate, but I hated the defensive structure.

Are there positives with Gulutzan's coaching? Of course. And yes, when the team is executing the 5-man system well, they can be dominant. But I would counter that they aren't dominant with it often enough. That is either due to a lack of talent, or the system is flawed in some way (too complicated, or too inflexible, or whatever). I think the talent is there, so...

As for lacking competitive depth, I would argue that no one in the bottom 6 is exceeding expectations, and everyone in the bottom 6 is under-achieving, and regressing. That is either a horrifically unfortunate coincidence, or there is a fundamental problem that is causing it.

Same argument can be made about the defense. Either there is way less talent than everyone (including experts outside of the fanbase) thought, or the D is under-achieving.

I am a big believer in Occam's razor. I think if the whole team is under-performing, it is more likely that there is a problem that is causing it, than it is the case that all of the players are suddenly not as good as they used to be or are expected to be.