Sam Bennett as a center or winger?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Jankowski is what he is, a nice depth center. The rush to proclaim him as a top 6 center after one decent AHL season and training camp was typical of many fans but just not supported by a sober assessment of him as a prospect.

Point being, Jankowski is not disappointing while Bennett is.

Bennett is disappointing when you lack context.

Go around the league and look for a young, 21 year old centre who has been tasked with playing with the quality of line mates that Bennett has been given. You aren't going to find many straight comparable situations, because again - most teams try to set players up for success, not failure.

Brouwer and Versteeg were kicked off the Monahan/Gaudreau line, why? Because they sucked and couldn't produce.

...so naturally, the best option is to play them with a rookie centre/2nd year centre, and hope that...what? That the centre can completely carry their useless butts up and down the ice all night? That's illogical.

Bennett, given the linemates he has played with, was set-up for failure. Everyone out there rushing to proclaim him a bust, or useless, or whatever fail to acknowledge how big of a role circumstances do actually play in success (...not you in this case, I know you're just speaking to a personal disappointment level).

It's ridiculous to watch everyone pile on Brouwer for being completely awful (which he is, and pretty much every measurable statistic speaks to it), only for those same people to turn around and...what? Blame Bennett for not being able to produce when playing with Brouwer? Monahan and Gaudreau, both of whom are much better players than Bennett, can't produce with Brouwer...but let's ignore that and just place the blame on our young, developing player.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Bennett is disappointing when you lack context.

Go around the league and look for a young, 21 year old centre who has been tasked with playing with the quality of line mates that Bennett has been given. You aren't going to find many straight comparable situations, because again - most teams try to set players up for success, not failure.

Brouwer and Versteeg were kicked off the Monahan/Gaudreau line, why? Because they sucked and couldn't produce.

...so naturally, the best option is to play them with a rookie centre/2nd year centre, and hope that...what? That the centre can completely carry their useless butts up and down the ice all night? That's illogical.

Bennett, given the linemates he has played with, was set-up for failure. Everyone out there rushing to proclaim him a bust, or useless, or whatever fail to acknowledge how big of a role circumstances do actually play in success (...not you in this case, I know you're just speaking to a personal disappointment level).

It's ridiculous to watch everyone pile on Brouwer for being completely awful (which he is, and pretty much every measurable statistic speaks to it), only for those same people to turn around and...what? Blame Bennett for not being able to produce when playing with Brouwer? Monahan and Gaudreau, both of whom are much better players than Bennett, can't produce with Brouwer...but let's ignore that and just place the blame on our young, developing player.

0 points

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Bennett is disappointing when you lack context.

Go around the league and look for a young, 21 year old centre who has been tasked with playing with the quality of line mates that Bennett has been given. You aren't going to find many straight comparable situations, because again - most teams try to set players up for success, not failure.

Brouwer and Versteeg were kicked off the Monahan/Gaudreau line, why? Because they sucked and couldn't produce.

...so naturally, the best option is to play them with a rookie centre/2nd year centre, and hope that...what? That the centre can completely carry their useless butts up and down the ice all night? That's illogical.

Bennett, given the linemates he has played with, was set-up for failure. Everyone out there rushing to proclaim him a bust, or useless, or whatever fail to acknowledge how big of a role circumstances do actually play in success (...not you in this case, I know you're just speaking to a personal disappointment level).

It's ridiculous to watch everyone pile on Brouwer for being completely awful (which he is, and pretty much every measurable statistic speaks to it), only for those same people to turn around and...what? Blame Bennett for not being able to produce when playing with Brouwer? Monahan and Gaudreau, both of whom are much better players than Bennett, can't produce with Brouwer...but let's ignore that and just place the blame on our young, developing player.

Bennett's been playing with different guys for several games now, though.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Bennett is disappointing when you lack context.

Go around the league and look for a young, 21 year old centre who has been tasked with playing with the quality of line mates that Bennett has been given. You aren't going to find many straight comparable situations, because again - most teams try to set players up for success, not failure.

Brouwer and Versteeg were kicked off the Monahan/Gaudreau line, why? Because they sucked and couldn't produce.

...so naturally, the best option is to play them with a rookie centre/2nd year centre, and hope that...what? That the centre can completely carry their useless butts up and down the ice all night? That's illogical.

Bennett, given the linemates he has played with, was set-up for failure. Everyone out there rushing to proclaim him a bust, or useless, or whatever fail to acknowledge how big of a role circumstances do actually play in success (...not you in this case, I know you're just speaking to a personal disappointment level).

It's ridiculous to watch everyone pile on Brouwer for being completely awful (which he is, and pretty much every measurable statistic speaks to it), only for those same people to turn around and...what? Blame Bennett for not being able to produce when playing with Brouwer? Monahan and Gaudreau, both of whom are much better players than Bennett, can't produce with Brouwer...but let's ignore that and just place the blame on our young, developing player.

Yes to all that, but zero points in 14 games. Zero - that’s pretty surprising for a top prospect regardless of context.

[VilleN]

I've wanted to believe Bennett would break out, and I still maintain a very small amount of hope... but Tinordi is right. 0 points in 14 games. Even with terrible linemates and poor minutes an impact player should be able to show that he belongs higher up in the lineup. Throw Tkachuk on a line with Lazar and Versteeg and I bet he is still able to score (hypothetical, I know). I hope with Jagr back in the lineup Bennett can benefit, but I'm worried he might be one of those highly talented junior guys that can't make the jump... I hope that's not the case, because I like the intensity he plays with.

[ThaBrink]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

0 points

What a well thought out response.

100% he's not been hitting expectations, but part of it is the environment he's been in. Give him another 10 - 15 games. If he still has 0 points then all blame is warranted.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by ThaBrink

What a well thought out response.

100% he's not been hitting expectations, but part of it is the environment he's been in. Give him another 10 - 15 games. If he still has 0 points then all blame is warranted.

It's 14 games in. I think the concern is warranted. I think if he had 3-5 pts right now you could say it's a lack of linemates and ice time, but 0 pts after 14 games is definitely not a good sign.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by ThaBrink

What a well thought out response.

100% he's not been hitting expectations, but part of it is the environment he's been in. Give him another 10 - 15 games. If he still has 0 points then all blame is warranted.

The age old dodge and deflect tactic trotted out by many fans on this board: "it's too early" to pass judgement.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by VilleN

It's 14 games in. I think the concern is warranted. I think if he had 3-5 pts right now you could say it's a lack of linemates and ice time, but 0 pts after 14 games is definitely not a good sign.

I would almost be more worried at two points.

Zero points is so utterly ridiculous that it is approaching statistically unlikely regardless of how good or bad a player is.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by VilleN

It's 14 games in. I think the concern is warranted. I think if he had 3-5 pts right now you could say it's a lack of linemates and ice time, but 0 pts after 14 games is definitely not a good sign.

If he was the only one struggling with the bottom 6, I'd be concerned. It just speaks to how utterly awful our bottom 6 is. It's the worst bottom 6 in the league.

I really believe that Bennett can, and will be a very good player in the NHL. I just don't think he can carry an NHL line by himself, there are few who can.

The fact that there have been huge steps forward in bringing Jankowski in to play with Bennett is a good sign. It's just a matter of time before they break through, and I don't think that it's a far way off.

[Harry Lime]

Until the last five games, the bottom 6 has consisted of Bennett, and 5 dudes. Now it's about to have Bennett, Janko and Jagr on the third line. The best of the remaining dudes on the fourth. Huge difference. I think tonight could be a turning point.

[united]

Insider Trading
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-...a-move~1252964

-Flames don't want to trade Bennett but are listening to offers - teams lowballing so far.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The age old dodge and deflect tactic trotted out by many fans on this board: "it's too early" to pass judgement.

All players experience slumps and dry spells. Fans tend to over-react to the significance of those dry spells (or hot streaks) if they happen at the beginning of the year.

Patience IS warranted, IMO. And labelling it as a 'deflect tactic' adds nothing to the conversation.

Yes, he has zero points so far. That is a fact. But as soon as he gains some points, that will no longer be the case. Assessing players - especially young and developing players - requires more than a simple score card - it is about determining potential, and developing that potential. And the simple fact of the matter is that the kid is only 21. And he is talented. And he will start scoring again.

[Flash Walken]

Disagree.

Going long stretches without points has been the story of bennetts career thus far.

January 2016:

“Guys that come from junior that score 50 goals in the season, definitely it’s a big change,” acknowledged Flames winger David Jones about the adjustments from making the jump to scoring in the National Hockey League. “I think sometimes you have to take pride in little victories — making a nice play or driving to the net or getting a good shot on net.

“Sometimes, it’s not always the goal; it’s the process … if he keeps playing the way he’s playing, they’re going to come.”

And when it does come, Jones assures that a domino effect usually follows.

Which should come as welcome news for the 19-year-old who has five goals and nine assists in the first 37 games of his first full NHL season.

“I think this is the longest slump I’ve ever been in,” Bennett said the other day. “It can get frustrating at times but if I keep working away, eventually something is going to go in.”

And, at this point, he’s desperate to try anything to break out of it.

“I try and change things up,” Bennett said. “Whether it be my game day routine or changing things on my stick, I’m always trying to find a way to mix things up a little.”

Craig Conroy can’t explain put his finger on why it’s not happening, despite having three or four good chances on most nights. But he is keeping faith in their young rookie.

“It happens … especially for a young guy that’s always gotten points, everywhere,” said the Flames assistant general manager. “It hasn’t been hard for him. But now, you get a little frustrated. He gets opportunities, they just haven’t gone in. Hopefully he gets one or two and it starts going for him. But he does everything right … huge positives. But maybe the production isn’t where he wants it.”

Bob Hartley is aware of Bennett’s mounting internal pressure as well as the ups and downs of being a first-year pro.

March 2016:

This season Bennett has scored just 12 even-strength goals through 66 games, four of which came in a 6–0 rout of the Florida Panthers back in January. Like many young players, he’s prone to long droughts: His last goal came on February 11 against the San Jose Sharks. Given the experience he gained in his first taste of the NHL, in the playoffs no less, it’s been no surprise that even through his tough stretches he’s remained hard-nosed about how things have been going.

​​​“In junior, you don’t normally go a couple of games without scoring,” Bennett told the Canadian Press in February. “It was definitely different, but it’s a different league and it’s a lot tougher. I knew that coming in.”

One not insignificant factor is that Bennett has had to adjust to left wing instead of center, the position he grew up playing and the one he was drafted to play. Coach Bob Hartley insisted in December that the Flames are "…treating him the same way we treated Sean Monahan in his first year and we have kind of our own recipe.”

January 2017:

The embattled 20-year-old had gone without a point for 12 straight games -- a span in which he took only 16 shots on net and went minus-6 -- so this was a welcome positive moment even though it was an utterly meaningless goal. It'd be huge for Bennett to keep the momentum going Thursday in Ottawa, the Flames' last game before the All-Star break; if he does, that would be a great sign for the resilient fantasy owners (mostly in keeper formats) who've stuck with him.

We're now going on 2018, and he's pointless in 14 games.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by united

Insider Trading
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-...a-move~1252964

-Flames don't want to trade Bennett but are listening to offers - teams lowballing so far.

That's the thing - you aren't going to get jack #### for him right now.

Far better asset management, IMO, to develop him and be patient with him. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Disagree.

Going long stretches without points has been the story of bennetts career thus far.

January 2016:



March 2016:



January 2017:



We're now going on 2018, and he's pointless in 14 games.

So you're saying he's streaky. Yes he is. So what would you suggest be done about it?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So you're saying he's streaky. Yes he is. So what would you suggest be done about it?

lol, no, going 10+ games at a time without scoring and finishing the season with less than 35 points is not 'streaky' it's bad offensive production.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Disagree.

Going long stretches without points has been the story of bennetts career thus far.

January 2016:



March 2016:



January 2017:



We're now going on 2018, and he's pointless in 14 games.

...so, you're saying a young developing player is struggling with consistency? Hmm, I've never, ever seen this happen before.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

lol, no, going 10+ games at a time without scoring and finishing the season with less than 35 points is not 'streaky' it's bad offensive production.

Well, when he's paired with other players who can produce offensively - and he still fails to produce, then I think you have a point. Having bad offensive production while playing with Troy Brouwer is hardly a trait exclusive to Sam Bennett.

It's not like Bennett has ever been in a position where he negatively impacts his linemates. He has consistently been fed players worse than he is, and at the age he's at - hoping he's going to be able to overcome that is a fool's errand. Bennett has played with nothing but rubbish since being moved off Backlund's line in favour of Tkachuk, until now. Being paired with Jankowski, who also has never produced at the NHL level, is beginning to show promise. They're generating chances, and I believe they'll begin to start going in very soon.

[Ashasx]

It makes no sense to consider trading Bennett right now. He's been playing better, just isn't getting results. Points will come.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It makes no sense to consider trading Bennett right now. He's been playing better, just isn't getting results. Points will come.

This.

Kent Wilson had a good breakdown of Bennett's first 7 games vs his last 7 games.

The needle is starting to point in the right direction for him, and even just visually he looks much more dangerous as a winger.

I think he goes on a bit of a hot streak once the first one goes in for him. The concerning part is the long streaks without points are becoming a trend for him, which means he does need some help with confidence IMO.