Kevin Spacey accused of attempted rape by Anthony Rapp when he was 14

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This is the weird thing with coaching. When we practice, most parents just take off a few stick around. But at the end of practice we have parents that show up a half an hour after the end of practice, and as coaches we don't want to leave these kids alone to wait for their parent so a coach will stick around.

When we move to Shriners and our practices end at 9 and all the lights go out, its pitch black and the far end of town and still parents show up late.

And sometimes I'm sitting there as the lone coach waiting with a kid or two for their parents to show up and I'm thinking, that I'm putting myself in a bad spot but I can't leave the kid to his own devices to wait in a darkened field to wait for parents.

One of our clubs recently sent out their policy regarding late pick-ups. First a verbal reminders, then a written, and then after that it's $50/half hour fee. If it becomes extreme or they don't pay the fee, then they just kick the kid out until the parents figure out a way to correct the situation.

[Northendzone]

last year when I was coaching if I noticed a player waiting fior a ride, I would also wait at the arena; however, I would ensure that I was not waiting directly with him

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

We have this law already.

I feel we may have come to a point in a discussion where you're either not hearing what I'm saying right or twisting what I'm saying. Either or, it makes me not want to continue.

One more time, I believe that public accusations ahead of criminal charges should be unlawful and punishable, automatically. And yes, I understand that this may cause injustice to victims that want to tell their stories publicly without going to court.

You know this line of thinking inevitably leads to more victims of sexual assault, right?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You know this line of thinking inevitably leads to more victims of sexual assault, right?

And less victims trusting the courts and preferring to keep their mouths shut.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

We have this law already.

I feel we may have come to a point in a discussion where you're either not hearing what I'm saying right or twisting what I'm saying. Either or, it makes me not want to continue.

One more time, I believe that public accusations ahead of criminal charges should be unlawful and punishable, automatically. And yes, I understand that this may cause injustice to victims that want to tell their stories publicly without going to court.

Ideally I would agree but a lot of these cases involve powerful people preying on less powerful people and unfortunately, in our society, access justice isn't uniform.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I have no idea about what has happened, about why a 14-yr old boy was alone at an adult drunken party at night, about why Rapp didn't do anything about it for 30 years. Frankly, I am not that interested either. This - excessive drugs, alcohol, orgies - seems to be the publicly acceptable and admirable lifestyle of the celebrity entertainment world. It would be naive to assume that this lifestyle is not leading to some form of sexual discontent under elevated sexual pretenses.

This is kind of where I'd like these stories to go.

I don't really have much of an opinion on this specific event, beyond "sounds normal to me, in those surroundings, based on what I've heard". Which is the sad part. Same as the the rock'n'roll stars in the sixties and seventies, having sex with young teens was seen as okay. Stars could talk about it in interviews and people would be "yeah that's totally cool". It's pretty easy to lose your moral compass in a situation like that, and while smart guys like Bowie or Spacey should definitely have known better, I really feel it's pointless to start crucifying individual stars.

I mean honestly, at a certain age if I had the power to pressure pretty girls to have sex with me without fear of consequence, I would probably have done it, and I don't think I'm very special in that. I don't mean we should accept it as normal, what I mean is that if that IS seen as normal, a lot of pretty average people will end up doing it.

I'm not generally big on publicly hanging individual people for the culture that surrounded them. Sometimes it needs to be done, but in those cases it'd be nice if the attention was on the worst people, not the most famous ones. I don't know if Spacey is one of the worst or not, but I haven't heard anything that makes him sound very special.

That said, it's good that Rapp is talking about what happened. It sucks for Spacey, but people need to have faces attached to stories before they really start paying attention, and it's not like Spacey didn't do anything to deserve the negative attention.

The entertainment business needs to realize abuse should not be normal, and it won't happen unless people talk about this stuff. Nothing is going to change overnight, but you got to start somewhere. The cases that come out should be treated as tip of the iceberg and examples of what has happened, not as sacrificial lambs to silence the angry mobs while continuing business as usual.

[undercoverbrother]

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41829484

New allegations have emerged from a number of men accusing Kevin Spacey of sexual misconduct.
US filmmaker Tony Montana claims he was groped by the actor in a Los Angeles bar in 2003.
Montana says he was left with PTSD for six months after he claims Spacey "forcefully" grabbed his crotch.
It follows an allegation made by Anthony Rapp that the House of Cards actor tried to "seduce" him when he was 14 years old.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment...isis-1.4381517

Mexican actor Robert Cavazos wrote on his Facebook page that he encountered Spacey at the bar of London's Old Vic Theatre, where Spacey was artistic director, and the actor tried to fondle him against his will.

"It was more common for this guy, when he was in the bar of his theater, grabbing whoever caught his attention," Cavazos wrote. "I didn't stand for it, but I know some people who were afraid to stop it."

Cavazos declined an interview request. There was no immediate reply to a request for comment from representatives for Spacey, who was artistic director from 2004-15.

So two more at least that have come forward.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Itse

I don't really have much of an opinion on this specific event, beyond "sounds normal to me, in those surroundings, based on what I've heard". Which is the sad part. Same as the the rock'n'roll stars in the sixties and seventies, having sex with young teens was seen as okay. Stars could talk about it in interviews and people would be "yeah that's totally cool". It's pretty easy to lose your moral compass in a situation like that, and while smart guys like Bowie or Spacey should definitely have known better, I really feel it's pointless to start crucifying individual stars.

It's funny, cause this same forum was high fiving all over the place when a superstar hockey player in his 40's tapped a 18 yr old model.

Comments such as she was more mature due to the environment she worked in, she's 18 so totally fine, etc.

I'll get flamed for bringing it up cause obviously no crime at that age, but it is funny how much difference a couple years make.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by speede5

I'll get flamed for bringing it up cause obviously no crime at that age, but it is funny how much difference a couple years make.

It is pretty funny you know, with how much development occurs in a couple years. Higher level thinking, personal identity and values, hormone stabilization and general maturity. Yeah, haha.

[savemedrzaius]

Season 6 has been suspended. Shame on you Kevin Spacey! I need closure on Frank Underwood!

[CaptainCrunch]

This is the nightmare scenario that I talked about for Spacey's team. Right now Hollywood is actually devouring itself. And if you have one person in your past that is willing to come forrward, its going to start a dog pile of your past.

Right now they've probably got Spacey in a room and they're screaming at him "How many more you creep?"

Now Jeremy Piven is in the spotlight, and he sort of handled it well, denying it and saying that he hopes that false accusations don't stop other victims from coming forward, but its the same thing, right now he's in a room getting grilled about the possibility of other people coming forward.

for too long in Hollywood it was the powerful taking advantage of the desperate. You want this role, or you want to be a player in this town, here's the couch. Now its kind of coming back to roost, and this is far from over, because the second wave of this won't be the known people, it will be the unknown people, the actress who played the silent waitress, the child actor who played kid kicking soccer in the background, it will be the ones who couldn't make it and went home with their tales between their legs.

If there was a Martin Luther moment in Hollywood, this is it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Anyone want to bet, that when production starts up again on House of Cards, it will be a one year later after the sudden death of his character?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

it will be the ones who couldn't make it and went home with their tales between their legs.

An appropriate misspelling, I think, given what's being talked about. Clever.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by speede5

It's funny, cause this same forum was high fiving all over the place when a superstar hockey player in his 40's tapped a 18 yr old model.

Comments such as she was more mature due to the environment she worked in, she's 18 so totally fine, etc.

I'll get flamed for bringing it up cause obviously no crime at that age, but it is funny how much difference a couple years make.

I didn't see the thread you are referring to, but that is ####ing disgusting behavior. I'm in my 40's now and if any one of my friends the same age as me were to partake in that behaviour I would be done with them. I don't see how it should be any different for a 40 something pro athlete or a movie star.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Anduril

It is pretty funny you know, with how much development occurs in a couple years. Higher level thinking, personal identity and values, hormone stabilization and general maturity. Yeah, haha.

Considering the amount of development that occurs after 18, this isn’t much of a defence for a middle aged man sleeping with 18 year olds. I think the poster you’re responding too has it right, there is a dark humour and, in my opinion, and indicator as to part of the problem in the way some people celebrate older men sleeping with barely legal women.

Teenagers are not nearly fully developed at 18. Moreso than 14, of course, but the margin grows slimmer between the two as the age bracket closes.

I think looking at the hero worship over a 40+ year old hockey player sleeping with an 18 year old is interesting. Would anyone think your middle-aged friend was a hero if he started dating a 16, 17, or 18 year old? What if it was your daughter?

It’s interesting, at least, and definitely a lesser part of the culture that is being put under the broiler right now.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I didn't see the thread you are referring to, but that is ####ing disgusting behavior. I'm in my 40's now and if any one of my friends the same age as me were to partake in that behaviour I would be done with them. I don't see how it should be any different for a 40 something pro athlete or a movie star.

I believe he's talking about Jagr. The pic of him in bed with the model gets posted all the time.

Not only the age difference but story goes that the model was dating a much younger teammate of Jagr or something like that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I didn't see the thread you are referring to, but that is ####ing disgusting behavior. I'm in my 40's now and if any one of my friends the same age as me were to partake in that behaviour I would be done with them. I don't see how it should be any different for a 40 something pro athlete or a movie star.

Why is there anything about two grown adults deciding to engage in a consensual activity? Who are we to judge them? If she decided that she wanted to engage in that activity with the other person why should we judge that?
Completely different situations and a terrible comparison.

[Itse]

Eh, that same 18-year old tried to blackmail said hockey star with post sex pictures.

Dumbest plan ever, but it's absolutely ridiculous to consider her a victim.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Itse

Eh, that same 18-year old tried to blackmail said hockey star with post sex pictures.

Dumbest plan ever, but it's absolutely ridiculous to consider her a victim.

Didn't throw the word victim out, nor did I imply that it was illegal, but If a mid 40's guy doesn't understand why its is not appropriate to get with 18 year old's they need a swift kick upside the head.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Why is there anything about two grown adults deciding to engage in a consensual activity? Who are we to judge them? If she decided that she wanted to engage in that activity with the other person why should we judge that?
Completely different situations and a terrible comparison.

I think his point is that our definition of "grown adults" is arbitrary. Not only that but how strongly the pendulum swings. She's 17 and he's a sick rapist. She's 18 and he's awesome, high five bro!