Kevin Spacey accused of attempted rape by Anthony Rapp when he was 14

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And you don't understand how common power disparities are in all relationships. In any group of five actors out for a night on the town - or students at a bar, or athletes at a tournament, or writers at a conference - there will likely be power disparities. Some who have higher social or career status than others. People in those groups may very well - as people do - engage in sexual relations. Some of those will even develop into long-term relationships.

We can't do away with power imbalances in sexual relations any more than we do away with them in all other aspects of our lives. Sometimes it's egregiously exploitative, and should be punishable by law, such as in the allegations against Weinstein. But it's neither just nor practical to sanction it in all cases.

The creepy part about this is that Rapp was a minor. Not the fact Spacey was a higher-status actor.

Kind of a soupy post but first you were saying Spacey doesn't fit the typical Hollywood power broker while trying to nail a 14 year old. Now it's all relationships engage power imbalances. Both wrong in my opinion. But I guess if you don't see the difference between athletes at a tournament and Graham James at a tournament there's not much more to say.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You clearly know sod all about the gay activist community, Spacey is the great white whale for the outing movement, the fact he hasn't confirmed he's gay while clearly being as Gay as all get out has set the movements teeth on edge for decades.

And no Spacey didn't try **** a 14 year old, you and I might well assume if the kid had been into it that is where the encounter would have gone but all Spacey has been accused of is drunkenly making a pass, I don't think he's even been accused of kissing the kid, no accusation of force or touching, just a clumsy sleazy pass

First of all, he's bisexual and has spent time living with and being in love with women so no, the "movement" if even angry at all, has no cause to be.

You should really learn what sexual assault is.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And no Spacey didn't try **** a 14 year old, you and I might well assume if the kid had been into it that is where the encounter would have gone but all Spacey has been accused of is drunkenly making a pass, I don't think he's even been accused of kissing the kid, no accusation of force or touching, just a clumsy sleazy pass

Sorry afc wimbledon, you're just clearly ill-informed. The allegation is he took a 14 year old to the VIP section a night club and then back to his apartment for a booze filled party. Once everyone had left he went to the 14 year old child, picked him up, carried him to his bed and laid on top of him with his arms tightening and "trying to get with him sexually" until the 14 year old child squirmed free and ran to the bathroom.

That's not a minor pass.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

...you and I might well assume if the kid had been into it that is where the encounter would have gone but all Spacey has been accused of is drunkenly making a pass, I don't think he's even been accused of kissing the kid, no accusation of force or touching, just a clumsy sleazy pass

Wow.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Sorry afc wimbledon, you're just clearly ill-informed. The allegation is he took a 14 year old to the VIP section a night club and then back to his apartment for a booze filled party. Once everyone had left he went to the 14 year old child, picked him up, carried him to his bed and laid on top of him with his arms tightening and "trying to get with him sexually" until the 14 year old child squirmed free and ran to the bathroom.

That's not a minor pass.

The kid was sitting on the bed already
Rapp recalled this all happening — Spacey appearing at the door, coming into the room, picking him up, and putting him on the bed — in one clumsy action, with Spacey landing at a slight angle on top of him. He said Spacey “was, like, pressing into me,” and that he remembers Spacey “tightening his arms.” But while he can't recall exactly how long Spacey remained on top of him, Rapp said he was able to “squirm” away after a short period.

He then left without any problems from Spacey

That's a drunken pass, the only thing utterly inappropriate is the kids age, nothing else

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh for Christ sake, the story is that a drunk 26 year old Kevin Spacey lay on top of the guy after schlepping him and his friend around some nightclubs and then taking them to a party, the guy, 14 at the time, thinks he was trying to seduce him, although has made no accusation that he tried to stop him leaving (which the kid did) or was in anyway violent, whilst, if true, this is still reprehensible it isn't an attempted rape.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And no Spacey didn't try **** a 14 year old, you and I might well assume if the kid had been into it that is where the encounter would have gone but all Spacey has been accused of is drunkenly making a pass, I don't think he's even been accused of kissing the kid, no accusation of force or touching, just a clumsy sleazy pass

Wait afc wimbledon? You're first post acknowledged that the grown man laid on top of the 14 year old child. And now you are alleging that there was no touching? WTF?

You know what (allegedly) happened, and are still trying to defend it as just a pass without any touching? That's incredibly odd.

I think you need to take a step back, because I think your Great White Whale has got some weird bias going on here for you. I would hope that if you had found out a grown man had picked up a 14 year old, carried him to his bed and than lay on top of him without permission, as he squirmed to free himself, would be far more than a sleazy pass.

[zamler]

Why would anyone assume that "if the kid was into it" the encounter would have gone a certain way, meaning they would have engaged in sex. Do I really need to explain what is wrong with this? So if the kid "wanted" it (ugh) then Spacey would have been happy to make it happen?

WTF.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The kid was sitting on the bed already
Rapp recalled this all happening — Spacey appearing at the door, coming into the room, picking him up, and putting him on the bed — in one clumsy action, with Spacey landing at a slight angle on top of him. He said Spacey “was, like, pressing into me,” and that he remembers Spacey “tightening his arms.” But while he can't recall exactly how long Spacey remained on top of him, Rapp said he was able to “squirm” away after a short period.

He then left without any problems from Spacey

That's a drunken pass, the only thing utterly inappropriate is the kids age, nothing else

So, uh. No. That's not okay. That's not a pass.

You can't without permission pick up someone, throw them on the bed, lay on top of them, tighten your arms around them, and only because they were able to squirm free let them go.

NO NO NO. Jesus Christ dude. This is not okay, it wouldn't be okay if it was 30 year old person, it's certainly not okay for a 14 year old boy. This is sexual assault dude.

[afc wimbledon]

No its not, I've worked with sexual assault victims for 30 years, this isn't worthy of a caution on its own

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

He then left without any problems from Spacey

That's a drunken pass, the only thing utterly inappropriate is the kids age, nothing else

Honestly you really do need to learn what sexual assault is. People who think like you are the ones that end up in jail because they are certain what they are doing could in no way be construed as assault. It's an easy Google search you can couple with actual case examples in Canadian law. But it's really crucial you don't go through life thinking that pinning someone on a bed against their will isn't assault. Or that letting him up and allowing him to leave makes it all ok.

It actually doesn't come down to age only. It comes down to consent.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No its not, I've worked with sexual assault victims for 30 years, this isn't worthy of a caution on its own

That's actually disappointing to hear from you. I'm at a lost for words. I seriously am.

[CaptainCrunch]

Story on Corey Feldman who says one of one of his molesters works for the Dodgers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/c...b07fdc5fbf741f

Some interesting quotes

“I’ve told these names to the police,” Feldman said during an appearance on NBC’s “Megyn Kelly Today” on Monday. “I’ve told the names to investigative reporters. Nobody’s ever put it out there.”

Feldman said he identified the alleged abusers in 1993 to police officers in Santa Barbara, California, while they interrogated him about sexual abuse allegations against Michael Jackson. (Feldman has denied that Jackson was a pedophile.)

The Santa Barbara police told Feldman that his alleged molestation took place outside their jurisdiction and he should follow up with the Los Angeles Police Department, Feldman said. But he did not, out of fear of being “scolded” and “shamed.”

Feldman has publicly identified former child talent manager and convicted sex offender Marty Weiss as one of his former abusers. He said he would be “happy” to name five other alleged abusers once he gets legal representation.

Feldman has said that he and “Two Corey’s” co-star Corey Haim, who died in 2010, were both sexually abused in the 1980s. The publishers of Feldman’s 2013 memoir, Coreyography, wouldn’t allow him to publish the names of some of the abusers, he said

So it sounds like he did go to the police and reporters with names way back and was ignored. The statute of limitations has expired, so if he puts out a movie now, he's probably looking at a bunch of law suits as that the only way that the alleged molesters can protect themselves.

Amy Berg produced a film called I think an open secret that documents pedophilia and sexual abuse in Hollywood and couldn't get a distributor so it was release publicly on youtube. Yet her film about child molestation in the Church had hollywood stumbling over itself to distribute it and award her an oscar.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Honestly you really do need to learn what sexual assault is. People who think like you are the ones that end up in jail because they are certain what they are doing could in no way be construed as assault. It's an easy Google search you can couple with actual case examples in Canadian law. But it's really crucial you don't go through life thinking that pinning someone on a bed against their will isn't assault. Or that letting him up and allowing him to leave makes it all ok.

It actually doesn't come down to age only. It comes down to consent.

There is no suggestion by Rapp that Spacey 'pinned him' to the bed, he says fell on top of him at an angle, by accident it would appear from Rapp's statement and then Rapp left, other than age this would clearly be a case of consent not being given and Spacey ceasing his attempts, the only issue here is the age of the kid, other than that this is a normal drunken pass rejected with no further issue.

[afc wimbledon]

Had he shoved his hand down the kids pants, even groped his junk on the outside of his strides, had he pulled out his own junk or even put on a porno movie and asked the kid if he liked movies about Gladiators, that would be sexual assault, this wasn't any where close to any of that, this was a guy pissed out of his head making a massively sleazy and innappropriate pass on a kid way to young

[Red Slinger]

AFC: If he did that to your 14 year old son or daughter how would you feel about it?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

There is no suggestion by Rapp that Spacey 'pinned him' to the bed, he says fell on top of him at an angle, by accident it would appear from Rapp's statement and then Rapp left, other than age this would clearly be a case of consent not being given and Spacey ceasing his attempts, the only issue here is the age of the kid, other than that this is a normal drunken pass rejected with no further issue.

So in your opinion, where does one have to be touched for an offense to occur? Because touching without consent is a crime. Rapp has said there was no consent here. So given that what happened was non consensual, what does one have to touch in order to have committed a crime?

Oooops, you already answered that question...

Had he shoved his hand down the kids pants, even groped his junk on the outside of his strides, had he pulled out his own junk or even put on a porno movie and asked the kid if he liked movies about Gladiators, that would be sexual assault, this wasn't any where close to any of that, this was a guy pissed out of his head making a massively sleazy and innappropriate pass on a kid way to youn

It's official, you're completely out to lunch. Go educate yourself.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

AFC: If he did that to your 14 year old son or daughter how would you feel about it?

I'd think he was a sleazy piece of ****, I might punch him out, I'm not excusing the behaviour, I am just pointing out nothing that Spacey did comes close to approaching a sexual assault

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

So in your opinion, where does one have to be touched for an offense to occur? Because touching without consent is a crime. Rapp has said there was no consent here. So given that what happened was non consensual, what does one have to touch in order to have committed a crime?

Touching the genitals without consent is always an assault, attempting a hug or even a kiss etc is fine if you back the 'eff of when the person says they don't consent, there is no woman on earth I've ever hugged kissed or otherwise tried to bed that has ever 'given consent' it is always implied as you touch them in non sexual ways and they either don't freak out (off to first base etc) or tell you to screw off

I assume you carry a sheath of duely notified consent forms in you pocket when you ask a woman out?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Had he shoved his hand down the kids pants, even groped his junk on the outside of his strides, had he pulled out his own junk or even put on a porno movie and asked the kid if he liked movies about Gladiators, that would be sexual assault, this wasn't any where close to any of that, this was a guy pissed out of his head making a massively sleazy and innappropriate pass on a kid way to young

I'm begging you, go figure this out. You can't bumble through life thinking this. It's painfully ignorant and as I understand it, your line of work precludes you from having these wonky notions. You're setting yourself up for a major down fall. If you've been working with sexual assault victims for 30 years you've missed the plot completely. Or more likely you need to update your knowledge, stop relying on experience, or realize your experience is wrong.

[Oling_Roachinen]

What exactly is that you do afc wimbeledon? If you don't mind me asking.

There's certainly an area where other cues are given that a formal document doesn't need to be drafted up and notarized before consent is given. There's a difference between going in for a kiss without asking first and randomly picking up someone, carrying them to a bed, throwing them on it, and laying on top while trying to get sexual and tightening your grasp without having even the slightest sign that they were interested. The second someone needs to describe "squirming" to get away, you've crossed a line. I can't believe you're defending this predatory behaviour.

I have a feeling if I asked you yesterday what you would call a situation where someone did what I described above, you would have no issue calling a spade a spade, and saying it was sexual assault. I think you're just not willing to call a Spacey a Spacey.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What exactly is that you do afc wimbeledon? If you don't mind me asking.

There's certainly an area where other cues are given that a formal document doesn't need to be drafted up and notarized before consent is given. There's a difference between going in for a kiss without asking first and randomly picking up someone, carrying them to a bed, throwing them on it, and laying on top while trying to get sexual and tightening your grasp without having even the slightest sign that they were interested. The second someone needs to describe "squirming" to get away, you've crossed a line. I can't believe you're defending this predatory behaviour.

I have a feeling if I asked you yesterday what you would call a situation where someone did what I described above, you would have no issue calling a spade a spade, and saying it was sexual assault. I think you're just not willing to call a Spacey a Spacey.

Had you asked me this yesterday I would have asked you if the accused was a teacher or parent, priest or some other position of authority, I would have asked if there were any other accusations, I would have asked if the accused used force or any other form of coercion,
if the answer to these was no I would have told you it didn't meet any criteria for a charge but was sleazy.