The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are you suggesting no fans understand how dynamic the game of hockey is? None?

Not the ones who call for firing the coach as soon as we play and lose a few bad games.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Speaking of cop-outs, why does Gulutzan get paid to coach if he can't be criticized?

If the criticism is deserved and isn't baseless due to a few lost games.

Far too much concern is put on results. Some players aren't playing well right now. Is that the coach's fault?

Seems to me it was GG's fault for us being a goalie graveyard the last few years. Where's the praise now that Smith is playing well?

Where's the talk of the success of zone entry and set-up on the powerplay? What about the quality PK we've had despite being one of the most penalized teams in the league (was it GG taking those penalties?)?

How can GG have been a good coach last year during our quality play that got us into the playoffs but now he sucks?

Or maybe there's something else factoring in.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Hockey really isn't that complicated a game IMO.

Most people who actually play hockey don't even understand a simple forecheck system where the first man in chokes the play off to the other team's weak side, followed by a second man cutting in to force a turnover.

Let alone more complicated systems play to a fan who only watches.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

If the criticism is deserved and isn't baseless due to a few lost games.

Far too much concern is put on results. Some players aren't playing well right now. Is that the coach's fault?

Seems to me it was GG's fault for us being a goalie graveyard the last few years. Where's the praise now that Smith is playing well?

Where's the talk of the success of zone entry and set-up on the powerplay? What about the quality PK we've had despite being one of the most penalized teams in the league (was it GG taking those penalties?)?

How can GG have been a good coach last year during our quality play that got us into the playoffs but now he sucks?

Or maybe there's something else factoring in.

It's a pro sports team, results are the most important thing. The powerplay is bottom 1/3 of the league, zone entry doesn't really matter when the results aren't there.

As for penalties, how did Hartley have them play the least penalized brand of hockey in the entire league? Did the whole team just get mind wiped of their discipline? The PK is 26th, also limited in the results department.

What do you want the Flames to be if results don't matter? A feeder team?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If you can't take snark, Bingo, don't dish snark.

Beyond that, it's rather amusing that, in a thread all about piling on coaching and management, you used one of the few posts that said nothing about the failures of coaching or management to get all defensive about it.

I mean, if you want to get all pissy about people attacking the coach, at least respond to the people attacking the coach. I'm not sure what you thought getting all passive aggressive on Dion's post was meant to accomplish.

I was sarcastic, not sure I'd call it pissy.

But I certainly wasn't attacking individuals and making it personal.

Can you fire me a list of what I can and can't do in the future? I'd be curious. I didn't know there were certain posts that I could and couldn't respond to. I'll ask the moderators maybe they can fill me in.

That's sarcasm by the way, maybe a little pissy again. But once again not personal or attacking.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

To be entirely honest, I've only skimmed this thread and read the posts of the people I normally have a lot of respect for. I completely understand most of the criticisms of GG, and some of them are valid: player usage, line matching, overcomplicated system, not doing enough to build up certain players. But all of those things aren't making or breaking an entire season. More to the point, Gulutzan has shown that when things aren't working over an extended period (more than 2 or 3 games) he changes things up and makes adjustments to all those things above. These adjustments might not be very noticeable, but a lot of the things that the fans scream for, he ends up doing: Move Bennett to wing for a time, play Jankowski at center, drop Brouwer to the 4th line, bench Bartkowski. However, when those things have been done, it hasn't resulted in any better success, so the second guessing of what he's doing right now should probably be at a minimum.

Here's what I see right now. This team is simply struggling with confidence and execution of the game plan (save for a couple players like Gaudreau, Gio, and Smith). All teams go through these lulls in a season. Usually you can see signs of a slump when the team is still winning. We saw this in L.A., where the team probably didn't play well enough to win, but still came away with points. Then we saw the team start to play the right way, but the results weren't there. That's usually how it goes. The team will start to fix the things that were wrong but not have the results to show for it. Then something happens and the results will come if the team sticks with the game plan. I expect this to happen sometime soon.

The one thing they've turned around and stuck with quite well is the defensive zone commitment. They've really cut down on the shots, and the high danger shots especially. Smith is making the saves he's supposed to, and then some. That part of the game has solidified itself when it was shakey early on.

But the offense has really struggled lately. That comes down to a few things that I can see easily:
1) Looking for the perfect play. Instead of firing pucks on net and gaining momentum with all of their possession time, they hold onto the puck (which is also the point of possession game plans) and wait for the absolute perfect shot instead of taking a good shot. It happened so many times last night that I lost count.
2) Not being aggressive and going to the net. This is a trend that happens to all teams at times. Right now, the Flames aren't willing to pay the price to score goals, and thus, they aren't. Crash the net and good things will happen. Tkachuk gets it.
3) Poor transition. They aren't making the quick play because they want to settle the puck down. This comes from having a rough start defensively. If you're more confident in the defensive zone play, you trust that you can make the quick outlet and no bad turnovers will happen. This is purely a factor of confidence in the game plan and the teammates.

Now most of those things are the result of overthinking the game and a lack of confidence. If any fault can be put on Gulutzan, it's that he hasn't managed the mental part of the game as well as he could. This is fair criticism as far as I'm concerned. He went out several times recently and called out his team in the media. It was a risky move on his part, and it seems to have backfired. He needs to take a different tact with them and build up their confidence again.

This seems to be a running theme with Gulutzan. He has struggled to manage the ups and downs of a season emotionally. The end result is a team that runs really hot and really cold. I don't think any of his assistants are good at that part of coaching either, which is why this seems to be a problem with this staff.

But let me say this: We've seen that when Gulutzan gets this team playing the right way and with confidence, they're darn near unbeatable. We KNOW that he can have success with this team. We also know that the 2 biggest deficiencies from last year have been shored up (2nd and 3rd pairing defense, goaltender), so IMO, once this team remembers how to win, they're going to roll over a lot of teams.

This is where the danger of an overreaction move like firing the coach 11 games into the year can be. I saw it last year with the Panthers when they fired Gallant before he had a chance to make adjustments. The end result was the loss of a quality coach, a lost season for a young roster, massive overhauls to the roster, and a general step back overall with the team. Make no mistake, this team is much better over the last season and a bit with Gulutzan. They're struggling right now, and there are things to work on, but I would not fire Gulutzan at this point. Besides which, there aren't a lot of better options for head coach that would fit this roster.

I said it before, that if the Flames finish in the bottom 10 this year, Gulutzan's job is fair game. In the meantime, give him time to make the adjustments necessary. All teams go through bad stretches. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Go back and look at the exit interviews from last year and specifically Versteeg.

Coaching staff has made hockey fun again.
This is like Chicago where players have a voice and an opinion.

The statements you are referring to are simplifying statements that you give to a tight team. It's the right thing to say.

You guys don't have to agree with me, but I see player execution issues all over the ice right now, and that's not coaching. This isn't Mike Keenan screaming at them, the media has been pointing out how wired Gulutzan is this week because he's showing emotion for the first time.

This isn't a team that has been brow beaten into nervousness.

I understand what you are saying Bingo, but I also remember the clip of Patrick Kane when the players coach got fired early in the season (Savard I believe) to bring in a "hard coach" at the time in Quenville. Winning and characters build a "fun" room is my opinion. The coach just needs to facilitate it. The 04 flames had a tight room, as did the Stanley cup winning Kings and Sutter doesn't strike me as the type of guy to organize team hiking trips (pardon the hyperbole).

Note this is not necessarily an endorsement for bringing back Sutter. Just a counter point.

[tsquared1967]

"These adjustments might not be very noticeable, but a lot of the things that the fans scream for, he ends up doing: Move Bennett to wing for a time, play Jankowski at center, drop Brouwer to the 4th line, bench Bartkowski. However, when those things have been done, it hasn't resulted in any better success, so the second guessing of what he's doing right now should probably be at a minimum."

You can't base this on 3 games. Brouwer and Chaisson were awful for most of last year and GG kept them on the top line forever. This year Brouwer has been back on the top line and also rewarded with time on the top PP unit. All GG has done is change something for a couple of games but goes right back to what doesn't work.

Stop bringing in other team's cast-offs as they bring in their young players.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Speaking of cop-outs, why does Gulutzan get paid to coach if he can't be criticized?

We should be able to criticize. It gets a little much around her at times though.

Negative criticisms are fine. It's the dead horse beatings that wear me out. We get it!

[jayswin]

I still believe coaching changes need two ingredients; 1. A coach isn't working out, and 2. A coach that you would truly hire not just because you need one, is available.

Last season I didn't think there was an upgrade available so it would be a "panic" firing. Now with Darryl Sutter available I would fully support bringing in the elite coach with the recent Stanley Cups.

[jayswin]

To me Glen Gulutzen is the perfect Associate Coach as he's a deep thinking, systems creator with a player friendly attitude. He's not the guy to lead a team though, imo.

If you had Darryl Sutter head coaching with Glen assisting him we'd create something really elite with this team, imo. Darryl would be the top quality "You're going to play your ass off for me every night and won't let you forget that" guy, and Glen would be the "good cop" coach who could be himself with the players (I get the sense that he really despises being the bad guy to the players) by giving them that guy they feel they could talk to and work things out with.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

But the offense has really struggled lately. That comes down to a few things that I can see easily:
1) Looking for the perfect play. Instead of firing pucks on net and gaining momentum with all of their possession time, they hold onto the puck (which is also the point of possession game plans) and wait for the absolute perfect shot instead of taking a good shot. It happened so many times last night that I lost count.
2) Not being aggressive and going to the net. This is a trend that happens to all teams at times. Right now, the Flames aren't willing to pay the price to score goals, and thus, they aren't. Crash the net and good things will happen. Tkachuk gets it.
3) Poor transition. They aren't making the quick play because they want to settle the puck down. This comes from having a rough start defensively. If you're more confident in the defensive zone play, you trust that you can make the quick outlet and no bad turnovers will happen. This is purely a factor of confidence in the game plan and the teammates.

This is a big issue I have noticed lately is the inability to transition and support. There was a comment earlier talking about how GG's "work as a 5 man team" limits offense, but what I have seen is an inability to work as a unit is killing the transition.

Brodie has been great offensively but there was more than one occasion where Hamonic got trapped by two fore-checkers last night and was unable to get the puck out properly. Brodie was already thinking offense.

That goes for the forwards too. I have been seeing a lot more stretch passes and attempts at quick transitions instead of attacking as a group. There have been some odd man rushes that have fizzled because of it, but also a lot of dangerous counter attacks.

This is a major pull back to Hartley's game plan and not reminiscent of how they played in the second half of last year at all. Smith has been an awesome addition but I wonder if his ability to puck handle has made the forwards try the fast break alone instead of skating with support. I have noticed that Smith is less active in this now than he was a couple weeks ago and I wonder if that was also GG trying to get a handle on it.

The are trying too many passes for fancy plays but they are also not maintaining puck possession in the zone or supporting one another. GG's game plan is slow and methodical, not fast break hockey that we are seeing now.

Is it a problem with the head coach? Yeah it is. It is his job to get the team to play his way. I don't think it's time to fire him into the sun yet for players not playing the way he wants them to. But there is going to come a time soon where he has to take responsibility for getting them to buy in.

[GeoRock]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

The lack of offense should create a chance to completely change their entire forward line combinations.

Gaudreau - Monahan - tkatchuk
Bennett - Backlund - frolik
Ferland - Jankowski - Brouwer
Versteeg - Stajan - Ferland

Switch up Brouwer/Ferland... Whatever. The team sucks TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT already.... Don't be shy of changing the pp either genius

Yup I like this and would love to see it. Would also be happy to see:

Bennett - Monahan - Tkatchuk
Gaudreau - Backlund - Frolik

Only be because Tkachuk brings so much physical play that a guy like Bennett can really get amongst it with him. Johnny has shown he can fit anywhere as long as he has room to move, and Backlund and Frolik could open him up.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

It's a pro sports team, results are the most important thing. The powerplay is bottom 1/3 of the league, zone entry doesn't really matter when the results aren't there.

As for penalties, how did Hartley have them play the least penalized brand of hockey in the entire league? Did the whole team just get mind wiped of their discipline? The PK is 26th, also limited in the results department.

What do you want the Flames to be if results don't matter? A feeder team?

If the team is playing poorly because of their systems, then yes fire the coach.

If the team is playing poorly because of the players then there's only so much the coach can do.

It's very difficult to tell if the system isn't working or if the players aren't performing it properly. So stop calling for someone's head when you know nothing of the circumstances.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, as a STH, I have been to 4 of the 5 games so far.

In those four games, the Flames are 0-4 and have been outscored 14-4. Four goals in 4 games.

It's sports, I understand that you lose sometimes. But when you drop $10k a year for a pair of tickets, I expect exciting, entertaining hockey, and I expect inspired efforts.

The Flames have a ton of talent, but they aren't utilizing it at all. They are far from firing on all cylinders, or getting the most out of their players.

What scares me, as a STH for the last 14 years, is that, after sitting through the frustrations of a team that just couldn't put it all together, then having the god-awful Brent Sutter era, and then a rebuild (which I was all for), we now have the most talented team we have had since I have been here, but it is starting to look like we might be wasting it.

The talent is there, without question: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Bennett, Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic. That is plenty of talent to build a solid (and presumably exciting) team around.

And yet it's not.

I was patient last year with the coaching staff. And it got better as the season went on. Yet here we are with all of the same issues in year 2. So as a STH, I have to say that I am starting to get pretty frustrated.

I would much rather watch Jankowski and Bennett and Lazar fail (because there is hope and expectation that they will improve), than watch Brouwer and Stajan and Versteeg fail.

/r

This is exactly what my 'asinine' comment was getting at - the guy who drops 10k on season tickets and expects entertainment.
Yeah, we all invest some, but the people paying the bills can't be very happy with the entertainment value for that kind of real investment.
Thank you.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

It's a pro sports team, results are the most important thing. The powerplay is bottom 1/3 of the league, zone entry doesn't really matter when the results aren't there.

As for penalties, how did Hartley have them play the least penalized brand of hockey in the entire league? Did the whole team just get mind wiped of their discipline? The PK is 26th, also limited in the results department.

What do you want the Flames to be if results don't matter? A feeder team?

to be fair, hartley had one of the most penalized brands of hockey too after wideman ended a refs career

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not so sure. The team has gone all-in with this three year window so expectations are certainly higher than last season. However I feel Treliving will stick with Gulutzan even if disaster happens and the team misses the playoffs this season. He hasn't fired any coach that he's brought in to date and the fact that Sigalet survived back to back seasons of arguably the worst goaltending in the history of the organization it appears he's willing to give his guys a lot of rope. I get the feeling he would probably make a big trade (Bennett, etc) before firing the coach if things get really bad.

Yup. The 3 year window is what this team has to work with for the most part. It's scary considering there always seems to be more negatives than positives but even if this season is a failure (early playoff exit/missing out entirely), Gulutzan will have at least the start of next season.

[indes]

I wanted to reiterate a part of my earlier post, the lack of transition game part.

It seems to me whenever we get the puck, instead of going back on the attack we play it back and set up again.

This allows the other team to set up and clog the neutral zone. We run a set play then as soon as we lose possession our whole team turns to defense.

It also creates the incredibly boring 'offense vs defense' like football.

The problem is that hockey is not football and teams that transition, attack quickly and maintain pressure win games.

Our team is doing none of those things despite the personel to do so. Our defense should be one of the best in the league at transitioning and turning the neutral zone into our bitch.

It's not this loss in particular, or the other losses. It's the way we're playing even in wins that's turning me off watching the games.

[FireGilbert]

I learned my lesson last season calling for Gulutzen to be fired early on only to eat crow during the 2nd half of the season. The posters wanting his head either forget last season or hated the hiring from the start and will use any struggles to try and prove they were right all along.

I just don't get wanting Gulutzen fired right now. Personally I'd want him gone if the Flames can't get past the first round but being out of the playoffs at the all star break or even going 1-6 on the home stand would also be valid. 11 games in at 5-6 is too early for a coaching change.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

To me Glen Gulutzen is the perfect Associate Coach as he's a deep thinking, systems creator with a player friendly attitude. He's not the guy to lead a team though, imo.

If you had Darryl Sutter head coaching with Glen assisting him we'd create something really elite with this team, imo. Darryl would be the top quality "You're going to play your ass off for me every night and won't let you forget that" guy, and Glen would be the "good cop" coach who could be himself with the players (I get the sense that he really despises being the bad guy to the players) by giving them that guy they feel they could talk to and work things out with.

The big problem is that there's almost no way a new coach, Sutter included, would keep a senior assistant coach. Edmonton is the only team that did something similar, to spectacularly bad results.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I learned my lesson last season calling for Gulutzen to be fired early on only to eat crow during the 2nd half of the season. The posters wanting his head either forget last season or hated the hiring from the start and will use any struggles to try and prove they were right all along.

I just don't get wanting Gulutzen fired right now. Personally I'd want him gone if the Flames can't get past the first round but being out of the playoffs at the all star break or even going 1-6 on the home stand would also be valid. 11 games in at 5-6 is too early for a coaching change.

Personally, I supported him last year, and I believe in being patient. And that patience paid off because they adjusted and eventually started playing well - very well at times.

What is frustrating me this year, and causing me to lose my patience, is the fact that the same issues are plaguing the team this year. There is absolutely no reason why a team should be having trouble with a system during the second year of the coach's tenure.

Also, even when they started playing well last year, there were things that were still somewhat concerning. The passiveness, and the lack of adjustments, were always things that worried me. However, I was willing to take a wait and see.

I'm waiting. I'm not sure that I'm seeing.

And the real concern is that the team is talented. The time is now.

Oh, and one more thing... a team should never have to adjust their skill sets and talent to fit the system. The system should be able to adjust to the type of team.

When the vast majority of your players are underperforming, there is either a massive mis-valuation of talent, or there is a problem with the system. Which seems more likely?