Amazon planning second headquarters with 50,000 jobs

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

He didn't say that. He said that he believed it's really between us and Denver.

Seems silly since a lot of people rank a bunch of cities ahead of those 2, makes sense though since he has skin in the game.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

How could anyone in a right mind invest in the P/E of 277? In simple language, this means that an investor will recoup the investment in 277 years from profits. I can't find a better example of of investor's exuberant irrationality.

Yes and No. Amazon is setting up to be a world changer. They could literally change the way commerce operates in many industries in the world.

If you believe in the future all commerce and distribution will occur through Amazon, then how do you put a price/value on the company?

[Erick Estrada]

Everything I have read indicates Toronto has better odds than Calgary as far as Canadian cities go.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Everything I have read indicates Toronto has better odds than Calgary as far as Canadian cities go.

I would think Toronto cost of living is a problem.....

A place like Amazon will have all sorts of employees not all of them can afford the expensive homes....

I have worked in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Calgary.

Toronto was the toughest place for the workers in terms of distance from the workplace.... Lots of them had really..really long drives.

Not sure, if Amazon would award the HQ North of the border.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

...
If you believe in the future all commerce and distribution will occur through Amazon, then how do you put a price/value on the company?

By comparing it to similar businesses. Most analysts consider Apple, Alphabet and Facebook to be game changers justifying investors' optimism in their growth potential outpacing their current performance. So, their P/E valuations could be used as good comparables. Amazon's current valuation is almost 8 times higher than Google and 16 times higher than Apple. eBay is probably the closest online trading platform to Amazon and it trades at P/E of 5, which makes it the most undervalued and attractive stock in the group, by far. Amazon's valuation is 58 times higher!

As an anecdote, on my way to Idaho to see the solar eclipse, we stopped for three nights in Butte, MT. Amazon.com offers many items that are not available on amazon.ca, so I've ordered a few to be delivered to the hotel where we're staying. All arrived in separately packed boxes in one day free of charge to a small town in the middle of nowhere. Some of them were as small as $6. If I didn't like any of them, I would have been able to return them for free, no questions asked. Yes, as a consumer, I absolutely love amazon's selection and service. But, how do you deliver a $6 item via one-day courier from a distant warehouse for free and not lose money? It's hard to believe that Amazon can avoid a huge downward correction at some point.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Everything I have read indicates Toronto has better odds than Calgary as far as Canadian cities go.

Not that I am happy toot TOs horn.....but I think it checks off a lot of the desired boxes EXCEPT for the main one - Tax Breaks.

- Pop. over 1 mil - chk
- easy access - 1 international airport, 2 regional airports, within 2 hour ride to the US boarder.
- close to post secondary institutions - 3 universities within city limits, 4 colleges within city limits, 3 universities within a 2 hour drive (one specializing in mathematics & tech)
- Multi cultural city - more than half the population identifies as a minority in the city.
- plenty of available office space and some space for development

Two things I think will factor in not on their list - 1) on/close to the east coast & 2) the financial center of Canada

Two thing that are large strikes against - 1) high cost of living & 2) no tax breaks - the Mayor has put himself behind this (there could be some financial help from the province - it is an election year and the Libs are down in the polls, though likely to win anyway.)

I think all Western cities are out of it unless they basically pay Amazon to go there. I also think the east coast is on their minds - so no Denver, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. Michigan and NY are known to offer heavy incentives to open businesses there and I think the Carolinas could put something together.

My bet is they stay in the states.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

...

My bet is they stay in the states.

This sentiment is echoed/shared by pretty much everyone I spoke to.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by flambers

I would think Toronto cost of living is a problem.....

A place like Amazon will have all sorts of employees not all of them can afford the expensive homes....

I have worked in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Calgary.

Toronto was the toughest place for the workers in terms of distance from the workplace.... Lots of them had really..really long drives.

Not sure, if Amazon would award the HQ North of the border.

The commute really depends on where you live. When I drove downtown for work my commute was 30 min in and 60 out, but I live just north of the Toronto city line. I know people who drive in from Barrie - 2 hours each way on good days. If they create a "campus" it will have to go in one of the suburb cities, which could drop the CoL by 10% (not a lot I know). If they time it right Amazon could have their own regional GO train stop.

Unless work from home or you live on the same block as where you work, everyone will have some kind of commute. If you want to live with a family in a detached house in the GTA but work downtown you will have a loooonnnggg commute. If you are willing to live in a downtown shoebox condo and work downtown, you will have a short commute.

I think the only concern Amazon has about their employees is that Amazon has a large pool to choose from. I don't think they care how long it takes works to get there.

Tax breaks, then building costs - the big factors.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

The commute really depends on where you live. When I drove downtown for work my commute was 30 min in and 60 out, but I live just north of the Toronto city line. I know people who drive in from Barrie - 2 hours each way on good days. If they create a "campus" it will have to go in one of the suburb cities, which could drop the CoL by 10% (not a lot I know). If they time it right Amazon could have their own regional GO train stop.

Unless work from home or you live on the same block as where you work, everyone will have some kind of commute. If you want to live with a family in a detached house in the GTA but work downtown you will have a loooonnnggg commute. If you are willing to live in a downtown shoebox condo and work downtown, you will have a short commute.

I think the only concern Amazon has about their employees is that Amazon has a large pool to choose from. I don't think they care how long it takes works to get there.

Tax breaks, then building costs - the big factors.

Tax & buildings cost are factors for sure, however many of the Cities bidding will have aggressive strategies.

Cost of living etc I would think is a factor.

As Amazon will relocate employees.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by flambers

Tax & buildings cost are factors for sure, however many of the Cities bidding will have aggressive strategies.

Cost of living etc I would think is a factor.

As Amazon will relocate employees.

If they are looking to relocate employees, then Canada is likely out of the question. That becomes a country wide cost of living issue. What American employee is going to want to come to Canada and get paid in CND$?? It won't matter if you can get a bigger house for less in CGY than in VCR or TO, you still won't be able to write off your mortgage interest, or pay less than $1 for a quart of milk, or fill your car for $0.75 a liter.

Canada is off the table.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

If they are looking to relocate employees, then Canada is likely out of the question. That becomes a country wide cost of living issue. What American employee is going to want to come to Canada and get paid in CND$?? It won't matter if you can get a bigger house for less in CGY than in VCR or TO, you still won't be able to write off your mortgage interest, or pay less than $1 for a quart of milk, or fill your car for $0.75 a liter.

Canada is off the table.

That might not be an issue. I have a friend who works for a big US company and is paid in US$ (as he often reminds me).

[CliffFletcher]

One key ask that's being overlooked is 'top school.' U of T and Waterloo might fit the bill. Can't think of any others in Canada that would be regarded as top science and tech schools.

[Hack&Lube]

For a company like Amazon, who's main goal is logistics efficiency...

Having headquarters across national borders and subject to different laws and regulations would add enough logistical pita and encumbrances to nix the idea.

Want to move equipment and goods or material from one HQ to another? Paperwork, customs clearing, delays, fees. Want to move employees and manpower back and forth? Passports, VISAs, bureacracy, delays, fees.

They will stay in the US. The only reason why Canada could be a viable target for an HQ if it was designed to service this country and Amazon gets more business from half of california than it does for all of Canada.

[dino7c]

Nenshi should make a pube bet if he is so confident

and yeah they are staying in the US

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

One key ask that's being overlooked is 'top school.' U of T and Waterloo might fit the bill. Can't think of any others in Canada that would be regarded as top science and tech schools.

U of A is a top 5 Research institution in Canada. Not sure in the Comp sci space.

Waterloo is definately a top tech school.

[Hack&Lube]

This RFD post seems to indicate Amazon's Canadian distribution centers (such as the one coming soon to Calgary) are pretty bad places to work as well.

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/anyo...7/2/#p28048974

In GTA mostly from the warehouse slaves of the Mississauga Fulfillment Centre at Erin Mills Parkway & Mill Creek Dr. I have personally visited this facility, absolutely horrible & miserable treatment of the warehouse slaves.

They hire through an in house temping agency called SMX - Staff Management . They use that agency to exploit the workers, instead of exploiting them directly. Almost all the warehouse slaves there are immigrants. Most managers & supervisors are White though, but the workers are not.

Ministry of Labour needs to thoroughly investigate this place. But the warehouse slaves there are too scared & intimidated to complain against the abuse. Most of them are clueless about their rights. I was disgusted & appalled with their treatment. Couldn't believe some crap like this happening right in Canada that too in GTA.

I've read similar stories about the fullfillment centers in the US but this is the price we pay for free, 1 day shipping, and low costs. Heck, I definitely have an Amazon window in my browser right now.

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/a...h-amazon-temp/

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Everything I have read indicates Toronto has better odds than Calgary as far as Canadian cities go.

Unless anyone who has to work there has a say. Working in Toronto is a daily challenge unless you live downtown ($$$$$)

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Betting companies have Calgary at 66:1. Not sure what Nenshi knows that they don't. But there's a lot of money to made for anyone who thinks he's right.

I was curious to see the other cities, I am guessing this is where that comes from:



Source

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Nenshi analyzed the other 200+ proposals did he? Very presumptive to be claiming such things a week after the RFP closed.

Breaking news: Local mayor pumps up city as choice of multi-billion dollar headquarters.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

There's hard and there's creating a toxic work environment, treating your employees like garbage and creating burnout. Amazon is the latter. It just sounds like they do not care at all about the people working those jobs.

It drives me crazy that we're grovelling for a company that acts this way. I find it a little sad. I'm really hoping we can attract some companies that are good employers with this little song and dance.

Make no mistake the job numbers are wildly optimistic. This is company is on the forefront of job automation. There will be fewer jobs with Amazon over time.

I really try to use Amazon as little as possible, I just find the way they treat people pretty gross. Obviously I have lots of products that were made by underappreciated employees but I try and keep it in mind when I purchase.

Yawn. Some people like to work like this and considering how successful Amazon is I think they are doing just fine with finding people who want to take over the world.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean everyone in the world is okay with a cushy 9 to 5 job where at the end of the your 30 years you've made zero difference to anyone much less changed the world.