[PGT] Canes 2 Flames 1

[transplant99]

37 minor penalties against in 7 games?

Yeah, thats not anything to do with officiating, that screams that this team simply isnt competing. They aren't skating, therefor they are always chasing. When you chase, you take penalties with your stick.

There is a pretty big problem with this club right now along with some others that arent quite as dire.

If they don't pick it up, and soon, they will find themselves chasing in the standings as well as on the ice.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Dion

Jagr had his best game as a Flame. Looks to be developing some nice chemistry with Johnny and Mony.

What happened to our transistion game and speed? We looked slow against the Canes.

This is a common misconception about the Flames just because it's a young team. Quite frankly, the footspeed of our forward core is not a strength of this club.

IMO, league average at best, as far as team speed.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

My thoughts, without reading 90% of this thread:

The Flames met a team that's constructed similarly to themselves and looks to play a possession and speed game...just like the Flames. What last night came down to was effort. Carolina had it in spades. The Flames looked like they didn't have an extra gear. I've seen the Flames do exactly what the Hurricanes did tonight earlier in the season. They have it in them, they just have to find it again.

Penalties absolutely destroyed any momentum. It's one thing to kill off 1 or 2 penalties in a row, but when you're killing a bunch in a row, the other team gains all the momentum and it's hard to get that back. Discipline has to be MUCH better going forward. Guys need to start getting benched for taking too many penalties. Both Bennett and Tkachuck made boneheaded plays tonight that cost the team, either momentum or an actual goal. Hamilton is taking some lazy penalties at times as well. Those guys need to clean it up ASAP because we can't afford to bench these kinds of players.

The only reason I wouldn't move both Stajan and Brouwer out of the lineup is because of the job they're doing on the PK. Until this team gets more disciplined, we need those guys in the lineup to kill those penalties. Without them, I bet the last few games get really out of hand. Otherwise, those guys are doing very little to help the team. Stajan: 6 games, 0 points, -3. Brouwer: 7 games, 1 point, -4 (team worst), Glass: 6 games, 0 points, -2. Those guys are not doing a good enough job 5 on 5.

I'd be happy if they brought in both Lazar and Familton next game and pulled Glass and Stajan out. Also, time to give Kulak a game. Bartkowski has been ok at times, but also pretty bad at times. Stone needs someone who is a little more reliable as a partner. Let's see if Kulak can get the job done. If Versteeg is out for any length of time, call up Jankowski and give him some time on the 3rd line.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Jagr
Tkachuck(watch those penalties!)-Backlund-Frolik
Jankowski-Bennett(watch those penalties!)-Lazar
Ferland-Familton-Brouwer

IR-Versteeg, Bench-Stajan/Glass

Giordano-Hamilton(watch those penalties!)
Brodie-Hamonic
Kulak-Stone



When you see a team as complacent as the Flames were last night, you have to shake up the lineup. The team needs a different combination of players, if only to get some different energy in the lineup.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

This is a common misconception about the Flames just because it's a young team. Quite frankly, the footspeed of our forward core is not a strength of this club.

IMO, league average at best, as far as team speed.

Yeah, there's no one with outstanding speed. They only appear fast when they are passing well and moving as a unit because that's just so hard to stop. They were cheating a lot last night, with some forwards way too high and looking for a stretch pass. There were lots of missed or intercepted long passes (which I found funny because so many here long for the stretch pass days).

[CroFlames]

CroFlames 31 thoughts:

• The top line looks like a top line with Jagr on the wing. He's actually not as slow as some supposed (this guy included). There was one play where he hustled his ass to the net on a two on one and I couldn't believe his speed. He was not passed the puck, but boy that was nice to see.
• Usual Jagr stuff along the boards. He's great at protecting the puck and was unlucky not to score at least one. Great chemistry among the two lads and the grandpa on the first line. Johnny was great at zone entry and holding the puck, Monahan's positioning was great, but could improve his FO percentage slightly. Great scoring touch as usual.
• Backlund's line was good. There were creating chances, but hard to gain any momentum or flow when the play is constantly being chopped up by penalty kills. Tkachuk pissing players off when not hitting the scoresheet, what a beauty.
• PKers were good too (they've had lots of practice, ha!)
• Discipline is a disaster. Not much else to add. Some questionable calls this season, but that is nothing new since the dawn of time.
• Smith outstanding again.
• Bennett not as bad as many are making him out to be. Disappointing he hasn't 'broken out' yet though. Even great players go through a month or two where nothing goes right because of expectations. He's feeling the pressure and likely trying to do too much. Hopefully he can calm down and play the way he can.
• When a player is struggling like Bennett is, I think its a great idea to move him to the wing to gain some confidence.
• Perfect opportunity to call up Janko. Why not ice your best roster?
• I hate the 4th line. Overpaid and isn't good at any one facet of the game. If you are going to be an energy line, then give me Lazar and Hathaway all day long. Brouwer and Stajan have become replaceable, bloated contracts.
• The top 4 D are playing well. I can't quite put my finger on why so many chances are given up though. Overall team defense, and forwards missing assignments? Hard to say. Gio has been a beast since Game 2, Brodie, Hamilton and Hamonic very solid. I've probably been so concerned about scoring goals the past few games I haven't paid attention to the specific breakdowns in our end.
• Bottom pair is a bottom pair. Wouldn't mind giving Kulak a crack at it and let Bart watch a few games. Can't wait till Rasmus is ready, I think that kid is showtime.
• Credit where it's due. Carolina played a great road game. Skated their asses off and forechecked aggressively. Wore the Flames down and clogged them up.
• With all the parity in the league, sometimes you just need some plain ol good luck to win games. Flames were unlucky at times this game.

Just kidding, it's not 31 thoughts.

[GioforPM]

Cali - it would be pretty hard to put Versteeg on IR when he came back into the game and didn't look to be hobbled at all, no?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Cali - it would be pretty hard to put Versteeg on IR when he came back into the game and didn't look to be hobbled at all, no?

Yes, but I thought I heard that after the game he was pretty banged up. I don't really know, but maybe he'll miss a game or two. Probably not long enough to call up anybody, but I'm hopeful that we can get Jankowski up here soon. He belongs in the NHL.

[Bunk]

Jagr does seem a good fit and 3m look decent so far. The bottom 6 is atrocious.

Team defense is a real problem right now as we get hemmed in our zone for long periods, can't breakout and take a lot of penalties as a result.

Jankowski and Lazar need to be in, Bennett on the wing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Yes, but I thought I heard that after the game he was pretty banged up. I don't really know, but maybe he'll miss a game or two. Probably not long enough to call up anybody, but I'm hopeful that we can get Jankowski up here soon. He belongs in the NHL.

It better not be his head, because that would mean the concussion protocol was not followed or followed badly.

Frankly, he wasn't playing well before either, so I'm OK with getting him out of the lineup, injury or no.

[GioforPM]

So much right here:

Originally Posted by CroFlames

CroFlames 31 thoughts:

• The top line looks like a top line with Jagr on the wing. He's actually not as slow as some supposed (this guy included). There was one play where he hustled his ass to the net on a two on one and I couldn't believe his speed. He was not passed the puck, but boy that was nice to see.
• Usual Jagr stuff along the boards. He's great at protecting the puck and was unlucky not to score at least one. Great chemistry among the two lads and the grandpa on the first line. Johnny was great at zone entry and holding the puck, Monahan's positioning was great, but could improve his FO percentage slightly. Great scoring touch as usual.
• Backlund's line was good. There were creating chances, but hard to gain any momentum or flow when the play is constantly being chopped up by penalty kills. Tkachuk pissing players off when not hitting the scoresheet, what a beauty. Backlund was easily the best forward out there.
• PKers were good too (they've had lots of practice, ha!)
• Discipline is a disaster. Not much else to add. Some questionable calls this season, but that is nothing new since the dawn of time. Call against were all penalties (Bennett's was the weakest call). But they got no calls their way, and there were infractions by the Canes
• Smith outstanding again.
• Bennett not as bad as many are making him out to be. Disappointing he hasn't 'broken out' yet though. Even great players go through a month or two where nothing goes right because of expectations. He's feeling the pressure and likely trying to do too much. Hopefully he can calm down and play the way he can. I thought he was the best player on that line. He was carrying the puck up and finding no one available.
• When a player is struggling like Bennett is, I think its a great idea to move him to the wing to gain some confidence.Yup, if for nothing else than to get him some different looks, and not having to carry the puck into the zone.
• Perfect opportunity to call up Janko. Why not ice your best roster?
• I hate the 4th line. Overpaid and isn't good at any one facet of the game. If you are going to be an energy line, then give me Lazar and Hathaway all day long. Brouwer and Stajan have become replaceable, bloated contracts. The only issue with removing Brouwer and Stajan is the PK. I thought Glass was a problem on that line. They actually had some chances but Gl;ass was the guy who lost the puck at the end
• The top 4 D are playing well. I can't quite put my finger on why so many chances are given up though. Overall team defense, and forwards missing assignments? Hard to say. Gio has been a beast since Game 2, Brodie, Hamilton and Hamonic very solid. I've probably been so concerned about scoring goals the past few games I haven't paid attention to the specific breakdowns in our end.Brodie had a bunch of soft giveaways. Other than that, I think the gap for zone exits is too big, which is a forward issue. Pucks were having to be passed to near the blue line, and the Canes were playing tight there.
• Bottom pair is a bottom pair. Wouldn't mind giving Kulak a crack at it and let Bart watch a few games. Can't wait till Rasmus is ready, I think that kid is showtime.
• Credit where it's due. Carolina played a great road game. Skated their asses off and forechecked aggressively. Wore the Flames down and clogged them up.
• With all the parity in the league, sometimes you just need some plain ol good luck to win games. Flames were unlucky at times this game. There were three open nets where the puck just didn't bounce right. Jagr, Frolik and Monahan

Just kidding, it's not 31 thoughts.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Jagr does seem a good fit and 3m look decent so far. The bottom 6 is atrocious.

Team defense is a real problem right now as we get hemmed in our zone for long periods, can't breakout and take a lot of penalties as a result.

Jankowski and Lazar need to be in.

Not directed at you Bunk, but I keep reading this at times on the board, and I couldn't disagree more.

Frolik has been invisible...niether good nor bad i suppose, but Backlund has been awful and Tkachuk with his penalties is a large part of the overall teams discipline problem.

There are fingers to be pointed throughout the lineup, no question, but the 3M line is just a microcosm of the entire team in that the effort/skating simply isnt there.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not directed at you Bunk, but I keep reading this at times on the board, and I couldn't disagree more.

Frolik has been invisible...niether good nor bad i suppose, but Backlund has been awful and Tkachuk with his penalties is a large part of the overall teams discipline problem.

There are fingers to be pointed throughout the lineup, no question, but the 3M line is just a microcosm of the entire team in that the effort/skating simply isnt there.

I think their problem really is that they are almost constantly doing PK duties.

[868904]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

CroFlames 31 thoughts:

• The top 4 D are playing well. I can't quite put my finger on why so many chances are given up though. Overall team defense, and forwards missing assignments? Hard to say. Gio has been a beast since Game 2, Brodie, Hamilton and Hamonic very solid. I've probably been so concerned about scoring goals the past few games I haven't paid attention to the specific breakdowns in our end.
• Bottom pair is a bottom pair. Wouldn't mind giving Kulak a crack at it and let Bart watch a few games. Can't wait till Rasmus is ready, I think that kid is showtime.
  

I think Brodie had his worst game of the season against Carolina, his head was not in the game, a lot of dumb turnovers and mistakes. However, overall, I think he and Hamonic have been great.

I think a lot of the problems of getting our of the zone are on the forwards. They are blowing the zone too soon or rushing the exit or making poor reads. On a number of occasions against Carolina, the defense was winning the puck battle and moving it to a forward, only to have the forward make a dumb play to turn it over again. There was one particular shift where Hamonic won a number of puck battles behind the net and moved the puck to a forward, onlyl to have the forward turn it over blindly. Stone and Bartkowski was also victim to this a few times.

This also isn't something new with this forward group. Their attention to detail in the defensive zone both in terms of defending and moving the puck out is really really poor. They try to be way too cute with little touch passes and behind the back plays. It's been a problem since the Hartley days and it looked like Gulutzan cleaned it up by the second half of last year, but it's back. It's just plain old laziness. The forwards just want to score and are not doing their job in the defensive end.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

37 minor penalties against in 7 games?

Yeah, thats not anything to do with officiating, that screams that this team simply isnt competing. They aren't skating, therefor they are always chasing. When you chase, you take penalties with your stick.

There is a pretty big problem with this club right now along with some others that arent quite as dire.

If they don't pick it up, and soon, they will find themselves chasing in the standings as well as on the ice.

This isn’t accurate. Penalties also come quite often from being aggressive, which is the case on a lot of these calls. This myth that penalties mean you’re chasing is just that, myth.

You know who leads the league in minor penalties, some with even bigger splits of stick/non-stick infractions (we’re about even)?

1. Pittsburgh
2. Nashville
3. Tampa

All three of whom have more points than Calgary, one of them is also the league leader. So as poetic as it is to say “chase on the ice and you’ll chase in the standings,” it’s not actually true. The three top teams last year all made the playoffs, and 3 out of the top 10 teams in minor penalties made the conference finals.

Penalties are simply not an indicator of a team’s ability to compete in any way.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

I didn't think the Flames were that bad last night. Penalties hurt them, and the lack of calls going the other was noticeable, but basically I think they ran into a really solid team. Scott Darling had some great saves and the Hurricanes were infuriatingly in position all freaking game; their defense especially looked great. I think if one of the Flames early chances had gone in and Carolina had to play catch up for at least a little bit, it would have been a much different game.

[GioforPM]

Just noticed that Jooris drew 4 out of the 6 penalties, though the roughing one on Tkachuk wasn't really a "draw" for him, he was just the guy Tkachuk decided hit after the whistle.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Be careful. I think Bennett's 10 dads post on here and they dont like any posts critiquing Bennett.

He's still young and will be better than RNH and don't forget the 1in1000 story of Backlund. He is pretty much the next Backlund. Only 8 more years to wait. Have some patience.

What an incredibly hypocritical post by you. I guess this makes you Sven's dad then, right, since I distinctly remember you "calling me out" (your words) when I posted underwhelming observations about Baertschi a few seasons ago.

Quit attacking other posters when their opinions don't agree with yours. You do the exact same thing over and over and over again. Making a snide comment about Bennett supporters being "Bennett's dad" is childish. An unabashed Baertschi fanboy like you should understand that, no? (see how annoying it is to say something like this?).

[Stanley]

This team needs Janko, Lazar, Hathaway and enough with this slow veteran BS

[Ryan Coke]

So Haynes said that league wide since last year, top minor penalty takers:
-3rd Tkachuk
-7 Bennett
-8 Hamilton

Sadly not surprising, and has to change.

Hamilton isn't as terrible as the beginning of the last 2 years, but his penalty last night was a prime example of his play. It was a 3 on 3 with the Canes coming in, he steps up on his man, then his man steps away from him and drives hard to the net. Dougie was slow to respond and ended up a stride back chasing him, then hacks him to try to prevent the scoring chance from the slot.

His poor positional play led to him taking the penalty on what was a nothing rush until he lost his man.

[calgaryblood]

I bet Flames players weren't even in the top 10 before the Wideman incident.