"Me Too"

[PepsiFree]

I’ve always understood it in two ways:

1. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to someone you weren’t sexually attracted to, don’t make it to someone you aren’t in a sexual relationship with, period.

2. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to a stranger while you’re in a relationship with someone, don’t make it to a stranger when you’re single.

This eliminates a lot of the confusion. Really like someone’s style? Tell them. They got a haircut that looks great on them? Go ahead. They have beautiful eyes?... refer to the rules above.

Sad to see many many “Me Too”s over the past couple days from many of the strong women I know, but threads like this where people can commit to listening to each other, thinking about their actions, and talking about how they can change are really great to see.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by driveway

The first thing I can think of that I'm going to change: my friend and I like to go down to where the nightclubs are in Taipei, get some drinks from 7-11 and hang out while we watch the girls go in and out of the clubs. I'm not doing that anymore.

That is so strange.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

I can't remember who but someone keeps putting up teenage korean girls in there....

There was a story behind that. It was a fun thing that lasted 2 years. But since the last one got taken down and Stryker's girl got taken down, you won't see me posting those gif anymore, not because of the objectification of the gif but because like all good things, the story has run its course.

and they were not teenagers, they were all famous singers

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Harassment included. So unwanted or inappropriate compliments for sure included.

Ok thanks for the clarification

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

1. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to someone you weren’t sexually attracted to, don’t make it to someone you aren’t in a sexual relationship with, period.

Alright folks, you heard the man, no more hitting on anyone, period. No flirting, either. Shut down Tinder.

Also, apparently, we'll start phasing out porn tout de suite and shaming people for masturbating. Seriously, when did the left become the Catholic Church?

I'm just going to go live in the woods, guys. Good luck with this sexually repressed society you're building. Those usually work out pretty well for women, after all.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Harassment included. So unwanted or inappropriate compliments for sure included.

This is a little confusing to me. I'm not the kind of guy to comment to women (or anyone else for that matter) on their appearance or whatever. But if someone complimented me on my looks, even if it was unwanted, I don't see how I would be offended or hurt by that? (I mean, how can I help the fact that I'm really, really ridiculously good looking?)

But seriously, I think its a little naïve to suggest that people don't enjoy other peoples looks. I think that is something that has less to do with gender and part of our basic biology or something like that? Of course, this doesn't excuse assaults/rapes/being lewd or indecent and I don't mean to suggest that at all.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There was a story behind that. It was a fun thing that lasted 2 years. But since the last one got taken down and Stryker's girl got taken down, you won't see me posting those gif anymore, not because of the objectification of the gif but because like all good things, the story has run its course.

and they were not teenagers, they were all famous singers

It was still cringeworthy and not really appropriate at work. glad that girl jumping out of the closest is gone too!
and holy! you did that for 2 years?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is a little confusing to me. I'm not the kind of guy to comment to women (or anyone else for that matter) on their appearance or whatever. But if someone complimented me on my looks, even if it was unwanted, I don't see how I would be offended or hurt by that? (I mean, how can I help the fact that I'm really, really ridiculously good looking?)

But seriously, I think its a little naïve to suggest that people don't enjoy other peoples looks. I think that is something that has less to do with gender and part of our basic biology or something like that? Of course, this doesn't excuse assaults/rapes/being lewd or indecent and I don't mean to suggest that at all.

The problem with harassment is that a lot of it comes down to the subjective interpretation of the victim. So, if a single person gets a compliment from another single person who they might also find attractive, that's fine. but if a non-attractive person compliments an attractive person then it's harassment.

THere are things that are objectively disgusting (cat calling, like how is this still a thing), but saying to a female "you look really nice today" needs to be treated with a bit of thought. What's the power dynamic? How close are you? etc...

[OMG!WTF!]

But if someone complimented me on my looks, even if it was unwanted, I don't see how I would be offended or hurt by that?

I think that's an awesome example of what people don't understand in general. From what I understand, compliments are often perceived as a gateway to further advances that may very well be unwanted. Sincere, polite, appropriate compliments are of course fine and appreciated. But it's certainly not up to a man to assess what is appropriate to a woman and vice versa. We've all seen the creepy guy who just won't leave it alone. That's the problem. Not the other kind.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Alright folks, you heard the man, no more hitting on anyone, period. No flirting, either. Shut down Tinder.

Also, apparently, we'll start phasing out porn tout de suite and shaming people for masturbating. Seriously, when did the left become the Catholic Church?

I'm just going to go live in the woods, guys. Good luck with this sexually repressed society you're building. Those usually work out pretty well for women, after all.

That's a fantastic example of what men don't seem to understand.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

The problem with harassment is that a lot of it comes down to the subjective interpretation of the victim. So, if a single person gets a compliment from another single person who they might also find attractive, that's fine. but if a non-attractive person compliments an attractive person then it's harassment.

THere are things that are objectively disgusting (cat calling, like how is this still a thing), but saying to a female "you look really nice today" needs to be treated with a bit of thought. What's the power dynamic? How close are you? etc...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-li.../2751966?snl=1

Not sure how to embed.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by rubecube

go dig up the big discussion we had here a few years back

Three years ago now. Man, time flies.

[GirlySports]

this all stems from the Weinstein thing right? So it's more to do with harassment in a professional setting, not necessarily a social setting. It's about power.

I don't know how this Weinstein news is shocking or even news, the term 'casting couch' didn't come out of nowhere.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’ve always understood it in two ways:

1. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to someone you weren’t sexually attracted to, don’t make it to someone you aren’t in a sexual relationship with, period.

2. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to a stranger while you’re in a relationship with someone, don’t make it to a stranger when you’re single.

This eliminates a lot of the confusion. Really like someone’s style? Tell them. They got a haircut that looks great on them? Go ahead. They have beautiful eyes?... refer to the rules above.

Do we even need to compliment people on their appearance? Even as a guy, I hate receiving compliments on something that is otherwise so arbitrary and without having anything to do with talent besides occasionally combing my hair.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

1. If it’s a comment you wouldn’t make to someone you weren’t sexually attracted to, don’t make it to someone you aren’t in a sexual relationship with, period.

This is the problem I've been musing about while reading this thread, and what Matty has bought up.

Is basically indicating any interest in something you're attracted to off grounds? If you can't compliment physical attributes of someone you like and want to date, then how are you even gonna get to the point of having a sexual relation with them, that follows the rule you posted?

I'm all for being more respectful and considerate to women, and to take emphasis away from the important of looks; but we are human, and we are attracted to one another based on our sexual orientation. We have to be reasonable that physical compliments isn't the worst thing in the world, and must be avoided at all costs with strangers, friends, or love interests.

You don't want to push too far on the other end of the spectrum here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Alright folks, you heard the man, no more hitting on anyone, period. No flirting, either. Shut down Tinder.

Also, apparently, we'll start phasing out porn tout de suite and shaming people for masturbating. Seriously, when did the left become the Catholic Church?

I'm just going to go live in the woods, guys. Good luck with this sexually repressed society you're building. Those usually work out pretty well for women, after all.

Or, maybe, you could start by judging whether the person you’re interested in is open to receiving sexually suggestive remarks before you make them.

I don’t know what this has to do with sexual repression, unless it literally arouses you to make sexually suggestive remarks to strangers as my suggestions do say it’s best to limit that.

Here’s a tip: you’re at the bar, you see a girl, which is more appropriate? Starting a conversation, picking up the signal that she too is interested, and then complimenting her bum? Or walking up to her and complimenting her bum? Number one is clearly the more appropriate way to handle flirting, but I would be concerned if saying “don’t do the second one” seems sexually repressive. The key is to figure out what kind of relationship and understanding you’re in with this person, BEFORE you make sexually suggestive comments.

The amount of guys that can’t figure this out is astounding. Figure out your relationship with the person and use appropriate language to reflect that relationship. If you haven’t done step one, then that person is effectively a stranger, so don’t be a creep to strangers.

Maybe it’s time to look in the mirror and ask: “Am I treating the women around me respectfully and appropriately?” If you’re the type that makes sexual comments to women in relationships that are clearly not sexual (boss/employee, co-workers, strangers, family) then you might be the cause of some “Me Too”s. And if you can’t flirt without making sexual remarks to strangers, or if you can’t tell the difference between people on Tinder and the girl serving you lunch, then there’s a lot of work to do.

[northcrunk]

It's important to remember sexual assault usually has more to do with power than sex. This is why men like Weinstein do what they do. They know they can do what they want and it's a way for them to flex their power and control over someone.

[WCan_Kid]

Oops.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This is the problem I've been musing about while reading this thread, and what Matty has bought up.

Is basically indicating any interest in something you're attracted to off grounds? If you can't compliment physical attributes of someone you like and want to date, then how are you even gonna get to the point of having a sexual relation with them, that follows the rule you posted?

I'm all for being more respectful and considerate to women, and to take emphasis away from the important of looks; but we are human, and we are attracted to one another based on our sexual orientation. We have to be reasonable that physical compliments isn't the worst thing in the world, and must be avoided at all costs with strangers, friends, or love interests.

Just talk to the person you're interested in like they're an equal, a person you'd like know better. If the sexual attraction is there, it'll work itself out. If not, maybe you gain a good friend. Win-win.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Joborule

This is the problem I've been musing about while reading this thread, and what Matty has bought up.

Is basically indicating any interest in something you're attracted to off grounds? If you can't compliment physical attributes of someone you like and want to date, then how are you even gonna get to the point of having a sexual relation with them, that follows the rule you posted?

I'm all for being more respectful and considerate to women, and to take emphasis away from the important of looks; but we are human, and we are attracted to one another based on our sexual orientation. We have to be reasonable that physical compliments isn't the worst thing in the world, and must be avoided at all costs with strangers, friends, or love interests.

You don't want to push too far on the other end of the spectrum here.

I think you have to accept the fact that being appropriate might mean you don't get to hit on via compliments every single woman you find attractive. But I also don't think that's going to lower your success rate either. Finding a genuine connection with someone for some reason over time is probably a better way to start than "Hey you're cute".