Bombardier C series hit with massive US Tariffs

[spuzzum]

Why doesn't Boeing just buy Bombardier at $2.05 a share? Keep it as a separate division and they can use their size and expertise to make it efficient and profitable. Condition of a takeover is to keep X % of Canadian and Irish operations intact.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

Why doesn't Boeing just buy Bombardier at $2.05 a share? Keep it as a separate division and they can use their size and expertise to make it efficient and profitable. Condition of a takeover is to keep X % of Canadian and Irish operations intact.

As long as the Bomardier family is involved, that company will never be efficient or profitable.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah no it wouldn't

The Avro Arrow was a single design interceptor made to go after high altitude soviet long range bombers and shoot them down with long range missiles.

It was made obsolete not by some american plot to kill it, but by the change in doctrine to missiles and low altitude insertion bombers.

Because of that unless you do a major redesign of the air frame, avonics and weapons deployment and find a way to make it multi-role it was dead before it left the testing phase.

It was also hideously expensive, with a cost of about $12.5 million dollars a copy for the final plane which would be well over 100 million dollars per plane today for a single role fighter it didn't make a lot of sense.

the plan after the cancellation of the Arrow of long range anti-aircraft missiles combined with multi-role fighter jets made all kinds of sense and was smart for the time.

There's this worship of the Arrow, and I liked it as well, but it just wouldn't stand up to the multi-role planes and dog fighters of today's military aviation design.

Well, it's clearly no Sopwith Camel.

[Lubicon]

Also worth noting that the engines and electronics for the C Series are manufactured in the U.S. so jobs in the States are hurt by this tariff as well.

[Bigtime]

Delta's Chief just said this:

"Yes, we will take the planes, there may be a delay… but we do not expect to pay any tariffs"

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/918127931955859456

[CaptainCrunch]

There will be a delay, and they can expect not to pay the tariffs but they will, I doubt that they will come down enough to make this thing economically viable for Delta.

When someone says Delay like that its not weeks or months, it will be years, which means that by the time it happens the C series will be dead unless they can actually sell it to other airlines outside of the US and outside of a few small orders its not happening and Airbus will view them as competition.

[Fuzz]

They should just set up a Canadian subsidiary and have that subsidiary buy the planes, and lease them to Delta for $1. I'm not an international trade layer, but I'm certain this would work. Oh, and they should paint a giant hand flipping the bird on the belly.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They should just set up a Canadian subsidiary and have that subsidiary buy the planes, and lease them to Delta for $1. I'm not an international trade layer, but I'm certain this would work. Oh, and they should paint a giant hand flipping the bird on the belly.

I would expect that would be challenged as well.

[CaptainCrunch]

Man this company is just clown shoes.

Can't sell the C series unless its at a $40 million dollar per plane loss.

Can't break into the European rail market.

Now it can't even supply rail cars

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...-ttc-says.html

Since the TTC placed the $1-billion, 204-car order with Bombardier in 2009, the company has repeatedly blown delivery schedules, and revised its yearly targets downward four separate times.

[GoinAllTheWay]

It really is a poorly run company. Which is a shame. Great products but crappy management. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this be another Blackberry or Nortel type outcome. Seems to be a common trend with big Canadian companies that started out very successfully.

[Resolute 14]

Meanwhile, Boeing is coming hard with some rather transparent and pathetic "we love Canada" ads on the radio this morning.

[Stealth22]

Boeing is only doing this cause they're afraid of the competition. They almost lost the United deal to Bombardier (and had to offer UA the 737-700 at a massive discount), and cried foul when they lost the Delta purchase. Apparently Delta took the ~20 Embraer 190's that Boeing took as trade-ins from Air Canada on their 737 MAX order, but rejected the Boeing 717 and the 737 MAX 7 as viable options before signing with Bombardier.

Boeing is probably going to lose any potential Canadian military orders for a while...and that's probably a good thing since the whole Super Hornet idea was flawed from the get go.

But I can't help but shake my head when I read comments from people saying that AC and WS should be forced to cancel their 737 MAX orders. And for what? To prop up this dumpster fire of a company in Bombardier?

I get that the C-series looks like a good product, and that Boeing shouldn't be talking about unfair subsidies, etc etc. But some of the commenters on Reddit and Twitter should just stop talking about things they know nothing about.

The costs of switching aircraft types for an airline (especially for WestJet, since they only fly the 737) would be astronomical! Couple that with all the 777's and 787's that AC flies (in addition to the MAX order), not to mention Sunwing and whoever else...

Yeahhhh, Boeing is not losing any business from Canadian airlines anytime soon.

[northcrunk]

Why do we keep propping up Bombardier again with Tax money?

[CaptainCrunch]

I just don't think that the C series is going to find a big enough market to survive and they're not going to really be able to penetrate the US market or even the European market.

They might design a nice train, but they can't seem to build and deliver them.

Those two divisions should really be spun off and Bombardier should focus of private business class planes like the Learjet and sell highly customized versions to Rich people.

And if they want to stick to Aerospace jump on the Drone technology.

Sometimes people forget how diffferent and absolutely ruthless and protectionist that American Mega firms are.

I still remember and its not the same, but when I was with Future Shop and they decided to expand into the States. I was offered a chance to go work in one of the US stores and I passed because I figured I'd be moving back to Canada in 6 months.

But Future Shop crowed and bragged about moving into the US market and how they were going to show the American's how business should be done.

So they went down and heavily discounted and on the first day, the American Firms, Circuit City and Best Buy and others, went absolutely ruthless because they had more money and buying power. They completely crushed Future Shop who then retreated back home, and Best Buy stormed into Canada and basically choked Future Shop to death in their own crib.

They just do business in a different way, and god help you if you gain their attention and your not ready.

Bombardier tried to pull a quick one, and Boeing did what came naturally to them, they went to war.

And some day in the future Boeing might just add a Boeing C series to their list of products.

[CaptainCrunch]

Bombardier looking to dump off parts of their Aerospace assets

https://www.thestar.com/business/201...ss-report.html

The Montreal-based manufacturer is studying the disposal of assets including its Q400 turboprop, which is made at its Downsview plant, and CRJ regional-jet unit, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the discussions are private.
Airbus SE is among the suitors, they said, with one person saying Bombardier is also open to partnerships with other aerospace companies.
The company’s Toronto operations currently employ about 3,500 people, with about 1,400 working on the Q400.

With both of their divisions, Rail and Aerospace taking body blows last week, with Rail now being effectively shut off from Europe and Aerospace with the C series being shut off from the States, its pretty clear that this company is bleeding badly. I would expect them to beg for another bailout from Ottawa soon.

[Delthefunky]

Watching sportscentre last night and there was a 30 sec. Boeing commercial. I can't ever remember seeing a Boeing commercial on a Canadian broadcast. The commercial was all about Boeing's commitment and importance to the Canadian economy with all the jobs they provide and subcontracts etc. I guess they have a need to save a bit of their mage in Canada, but I really don't see why, it's not like Air Canada and Westjet are suddenly going to cancel all their 787 and 737 orders.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Just heard them for the first time this morning. Very odd. Not sure why they'd feel the need to do that.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

Watching sportscentre last night and there was a 30 sec. Boeing commercial. I can't ever remember seeing a Boeing commercial on a Canadian broadcast. The commercial was all about Boeing's commitment and importance to the Canadian economy with all the jobs they provide and subcontracts etc. I guess they have a need to save a bit of their mage in Canada, but I really don't see why, it's not like Air Canada and Westjet are suddenly going to cancel all their 787 and 737 orders.

Came across Boeing's ad on youtube as well, and thought it was very odd, especially with what is going on these days.

[Bigtime]

Boeing is running those ads not for their airliners but for their Super F-18's. What was the contract worth to equip us in the interim with them?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Boeing is running those ads not for their airliners but for their Super F-18's. What was the contract worth to equip us in the interim with them?

6 billion for 18 (snicker) airplanes