If there's one thing that bugs me, it's inaccurate stat-keeping. The NHL should be ashamed at their scorekeepers tonight -- just bush league.
Two examples clearly stand out -- Gaudreau not getting an assist on Monahan's goal, and Bennett not getting an assist on Hamilton's. These are clear, obvious assists as defined by NHL rules, but no assists. Just terrible.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Um.
So, they just "fixed" Monahan's goal... by giving it to Hamilton, from Monahan and... Frolik, who wasn't even on the ice.
Uh, NHL, are you drunk?
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
They gave the goal to Hamilton, from Monahan and Frolik (who wasn't even on the ice).
Something strange is happening in the NHL's statistician's office.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Hey, a victory! They gave Frolik and Monahan assists on Hamonic's goal!
Now, if they could fix Monahan's goal, which currently reads "Hamilton from Frolik and Monahan". Not one of those is correct.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I see the argument for the Bennett exclusion as it looks like the Canuck defenseman might have been the one who pushed it back to Tkachuk.
The third goal is just inexcusable now. I mean, it's the friggin game-winner, too -- it should be Monahan's 22nd career game-winner. It should be Monahan from Hamilton and Gaudreau; instead, it says Hamilton -- unassisted.
IDK what the hell is happening tonight but hopefully it's fixed.
Edit: they've now renamed the video on NHL.com as "D. Hamilton pots long shot". WTF, NHL.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
But but fantasy!
Yeah I understand. The Gaudreau snub makes me a little angry tho since the assist he should have would put him into a tie for 4th in NHL scoring.
Thing is, they just fixed the assists on Hamonic's goal and they also just re-named that video on NHL.com. There are clearly people working on this tonight and they've done it wrong, IMO.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Yeah, the Frolik assist is accurate for the Hamonic goal.
The Monahan goal is just all bafflingly wrong.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Oh, good grief.
Not that I'm mad about Hamilton or anything. I just think it's incredibly bush league for something this obvious to be so wrong.
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Oh, yes, it obviously was tipped off of Monahan, and also assisted by Gaudreau. That's the issue, because it's been scored as "Hamilton -- unassisted".
Anyway, congrats to Dougie Hamilton on his career-high two-goal game. Two whole goals.
Absolutely, riveting -- coverage...
The -- mistake, usually, gets fixed... in, a, couple -- days... when, this, happens -- ...
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Just finished watching that game -- no flow to most of the that game with all the penalties, and everyone getting kicked out of the face off circle.
Glad they bounced back after the Ottawa game and beat a team they should beat.
The PK was really good, but the PP doesn't look very good though -- I still don't like Versteeg or Brodie out there on the first unit. Should be Gio and Hamilton.
Anyway, they should get some practice time in over the next week.
Not sure who the "haters" are but it is indisputable that he hasnt been very good this season
He hasn't been very "bad" either.
And he's barely missed out on at least a few assists for scoring plays he has participated in. He's under the microscope right now, but let's not forget Mikael "Selke" Backlund had 1 point in his first 13 games two seasons ago and an 8 game pointless streak last year. Due to the added responsibilities, Center is a tough position to consistently score - even for our best center. I know you can point at Monahan's production, but he's arguably gotten away with his share of "cheating" throughout his career. Let's also not forget that at the exact same age, Johnny Gaudreau on the wing had 0 points in his first 5 games, too. Or looking to a player that Bennett in some ways resembles style-wise, Jonathan Toews last year had 2 assists in his first seven games - and that's while averaging 21:32 of ice time making 10 million a year.
Other than Bennett taking penalties (not all of which are necessarily "bad"/"undsiciplined" penalties, though some certainly are), his overall contribution hasn't been costing the team. Not that goal differentials are goalie/luck-independant, but he has been on for just as many 5-on-5 goals for (2) as he has against(2). That's the exact same as Gaudreau (4 for, 4 against) but people only remember the offense without respect to ice time or 200-foot contributions. As for the power play, Bennett is 7th among forwards on the team in PP ice time with Jagr gaining on him rapidly. He's played 38.8% of the PP minutes Monahan has, and that's mostly a classic 3F-2D unit rather than the proven-more-effective 1D-4F umbrella. The 2nd unit has played about ten minutes with him and five without him, and have only scored once (he was on the ice). I just don't think that 10 PP minutes is enough PP time to be analyzing anything. Additionally, Bennett is one of our better penalty killers, probably our best forward after the Backlund-Frolik pair. He's finding ways to contribute elsewhere while the offense isn't there.
I just think the exaggerated analysis around this kid - things like he is a bust and we need to pull out before too late and he loses all value, or that he uses his linemates poorly, or that he's somehow botching his responsibilities at center and needs to be moved to wing - are nothing short of petulance, confirmation bias, and expecting his draft position to supersede his actual role on the team. If he were not a high draft pick people would not be complaining about his net contributions as 3C, outside of the aforementioned penalties. As I pointed out, last year he was playing .5PPG hockey before being taken off the power play to appease certain Pro-Frolik articles that were written, and that demotion caused an extended slump in his play.
If it sounds like I'm making excuses for Bennett - I'm not. Clearly he's botched his share of plays in the offensive zone and clearly he isn't shooting half as much as he needs to be. Defensively he like others hasn't been as strong as he was last year either. 0-0-0 is a tough stat line across six games. But for a young guy like him, points do tend to come in bunches once you get a bounce. Last year Bennett started with 0-0-0 in his first five and then had 3-3-6 in his next four.
Slumps happen. Dylan Larkin struggled just as much last year as Bennett did, also playing his first full year at center, and he's opened this season at a point-a-game pace. I wish that were Bennett right now, but we are not. But piling on a guy during a slump is the worst. I don't think of a guy who's ever had it "comfortable" in the NHL - since his rookie year he's been put into tough positions, whether it was starting on the 2nd line in the playoffs against the Sedins and co, or being forced to be Markus Granlund's LW for a big chunk of his rookie year, or dealing with Troy Brouwer's awful season last year - he's experienced offensive futility seemingly every step of the way. Even this year, Gulutzan is more interested in getting Johnny/Monny/Jagr going than giving Bennett some time to build chemistry with someone whose career high is not 6 goals and 20 points. Which might be correct, but also justifies the reason not to have your 3rd line center on a microscope. The coach doesn't.
Finally, regarding penalties. Bennett is a player who plays a certain chippy, undisciplined style. Guys like Kesler and Getzlaf are also known to play this style and sometimes it gets them into trouble. I don't know if it's "right" compared to the style of a Sean Monahan or Mikael Backlund - but you can't have it both ways. Either you want this team to be full of ****-disturbers or you don't. What I do know is that Bennett had a pretty darn positive penalty differential under Hartley and an overwhelmingly negative one under Gulutzan. Is that a co-incidence? I don't know definitively but personally I don't think it is.
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The -- mistake, usually, gets fixed... in, a, couple -- days... when, this, happens -- ...
I’m a pretty hardcore poolie and it’s usually fixed the night of. The last time I remember it taking longer than a day to fix was when Zajac assisted on an EN on the Devils (failed) cup run in 2012. That was fixed within 24 hours, there probably has been a few mistakes since then but it’s pretty unsual that it doesn’t get fixed the night of.
Now here’s the thing that really has me going WTF, they actually did review it and changed it to a Dougie unassisted. How the hell did they manage to do that? This isn’t just a screwover to all us poolies (I have Johnny) but it’s also a screwover to the players! Robbing Mony of a goal and Johnny of an assist. Also robbing Mony of another gwg which we all know he’s been one of the leaders in since he’s come into the league. If they don’t fix it by tonight then I suggest everyone who cares to tweet @NHL and maybe your fav NHL broadcasters. Me and so many others have tweeted @NHL already, I might tweet Kelly next.
I actually think Bennett's done not a bad job of using his linemates this season. I'm not sure I've seen him try to deke through 5 defenders at all this year. A few times playing with Jagr and Versteeg, they even had a nice cycle set up.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to have high expectations for a player drafted 4th overall. Plus, we've been spoiled with players like Monahan and Tkachuk who came right out of the top 10 in the draft and started putting up numbers out of the gate.
I actually think Bennett's done not a bad job of using his linemates this season. I'm not sure I've seen him try to deke through 5 defenders at all this year. A few times playing with Jagr and Versteeg, they even had a nice cycle set up.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to have high expectations for a player drafted 4th overall. Plus, we've been spoiled with players like Monahan and Tkachuk who came right out of the top 10 in the draft and started putting up numbers out of the gate.
Well, last night he tried to do it all himself with about 3 canucks on him behind his own net. Or maybe that was because Hamonic and Bartkowski stood there and marvelled at his stick handling while failing to get open for him.
Didn't manage to make it to my Canucks buddy's place, I was out late chopping wood for burn season here on the island and watched the first period from my shop. 1-1 score. Finished up, went inside and put on my Flames "onesey" and as I'm coming down stairs to watch the game and the Flames take a 2-1 lead... 4 goals for the Flames in the "onesey"!
So the Flames are now 4-0 when I'm wearing the "Wonsey"!?
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I was at the game... here were maybe 2/3rds of that in attendance... I've never seen that many empty seats at a Canucks game... or any NHL game I've ever attended (which includes games in PHX)
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
... Eakins' claims Gagne's line played Kessel's line even...
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Originally Posted by Hells Bells View Post
Yeah, Gagner's line was -4 and Kessel's was +4, so it all evened out.
That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to have high expectations for a player drafted 4th overall.
Having high expectations for a player drafted 4th overall is fine.
Keying in on results in small sample sizes in a role that's detrimental to results to feed your agenda, not so much.
Bennett is on our 3rd line. He's not really playing with Gaudreau and he's not really playing with Tkachuk - our two 1st line wingers.
Bennett plays on our 2nd PP, which plays about half as often as our 1st PP and often spends a bigger portion of its shift carrying the puck in.
He could be a 1st overall pick but these elements of his role aren't going to change. Same applies to other guys - Jankowski for instance.
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Plus, we've been spoiled with players like Monahan and Tkachuk who came right out of the top 10 in the draft and started putting up numbers out of the gate.
Both Tkachuk and Monahan were different situations.
Tkachuk came to a team that needed a true 1st line winger. Further, Tkachuk was coached from childhood by a former NHLer, the details of his game never needed as much work. He ended up going to Backlund/Frolik to give us two scoring lines.
Monahan was a different situation. There was a hole down the middle. In 2013-14, Matt Stajan was essentially our first line center. This kind of blatant immediate gap allowed us to put Monahan in situations to fail. Did people forget that Monahan was a minus 20 as a rookie? +/- may not mean much but that's pretty indicative of the leash Monahan was allowed - it was okay for the team to be bad and missing the playoffs was not only the expectation but deep down we knew we needed a high draft pick that year. His second year as a center, Monahan took some strides forward, but again, the need presented itself. Matt Stajan got hurt. Mikael Backlund missed half the season. Suddenly the minutes were there as well as the opportunity. Monahan also had a six game pointless streak. And finally Bob Hartley's system was far more forgiving of centers, not asking them to come back down low to support their D, which allowed Monahan to focus on the "easy" part to evaluate - scoring.
When Bennett's rookie year started, the expectations were immediately different. Playoffs were expected, and anything short was considered a failure. That got Bennett thrown on the wing the moment he made a mistake at center (A Colorado game, I remember the specific mistake pretty distinctly). We also needed a winger that year for Backlund, who wasn't doing to well to open the year with Lance Bouma as his LW. So Bennett was moved to center in a bid to make the playoffs - a situation that never happened to Monahan because playoffs were a pipe dream. The very day our playoff hopes died with a loss, I think to the Coyotes, Bennett was moved back to center. But he wasn't competing with Stajan and an unproven Backlund. He was competing with Monahan and an established Backlund.
Because of Monahan's evolution into a 60 point center and the evolution of Backlund into a bonafide top center, Bennett is on a team that no longer "needs" a top center. Neither of these players have gotten injured the way Stajan and Backlund did in 2014. I want to see what Bennett can do between Tkachuk and Frolik, or with extended (not half a game) time with Gaudreau. But that's not an option and expecting it to be is unrealistic.
We don't "need" a top LW either with Gaudreau and Tkachuk either. The luxury of playing Bennett at 3C is nice, but it's also a bit of a curse.
And no, Bennett shouldn't move to wing to stack our top six. The reason for this is because Bennett still has potential as a center to be better than one or both of Backlund or Monahan in the future. That potential could be the difference between a cup run and being a first round out.
TL;DR - Bennett is our 3rd line center. Yeah he's a high pick but he's still our 3rd line center. Manage your expectations to the role he's in, until he gets his chance at a different role.
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Originally Posted by Stormageddon
Well, last night he tried to do it all himself with about 3 canucks on him behind his own net. Or maybe that was because Hamonic and Bartkowski stood there and marvelled at his stick handling while failing to get open for him.
Because quality players should never try to do it themselves? Not every attempted skilled play is a failure to use your linemates. Not every shift is about trying your damnedest to never ever resemble Taylor Hall.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 10-15-2017 at 10:43 AM.
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I’m always amazed these sportscasters and announcers can call the game with McDavid’s **** in their mouths all the time.
I'm glad you had a nice evening!
