Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

NA class is interesting idea.
Purely anecdotal, but since moving to Chicago area, have chatted with probably 100 people about moving here from Montreal. Maybe 40% suggested Montreal was the one city in Canada they would love to visit. Several talked about hoping to visit the Canadian rockies one day (without reference to Calgary), a few talked Toronto or Vancouver.
A city like Montreal, littered from one end to the other with crumbling infrastructure, is a very long way from world class, but I'll bet it ranks high in North American class destination talk.

people just want to go to different places, Montreal seems exotic to them and not too far away. The Rockies for the mountains.

for example Aspen Colorado is a world class skiing destination but why would Calgary people go there? We'd rather go to Hawaii.

[Corral]

On my international travels, I've been surprised to learn folks in far away places even know what Calgary is. The overwhelming majority of those folks say they'd like to visit during Stampede. That is it. Not for the Rockies or anything else. Calgary is a destination on some bucket lists. Look its only October and its already too cold, the ground is brown, and it will stay that way for the most part until next May. We had a hot summer that lasted a whole 3 months. Very very few people on a global scale would choose to live here. This is not world class by just about every measure. Very liveable yes - but only thanks to your gas-fired furnace and comfy SUV. A hockey arena will change nothing about this.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

people just want to go to different places, Montreal seems exotic to them and not too far away. The Rockies for the mountains.

for example Aspen Colorado is a world class skiing destination but why would Calgary people go there? We'd rather go to Hawaii.

Exactly. That was my point.
No one wants to visit Toronto.
Cities either provide high quality of life for residents, or they don't. Which is unrelated to the standard definition of 'world class'.

[RM14]

world-class
(adjective)
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/world-class


1. ranking among the world's best; outstanding:
(a world-class orchestra.)
2. attracting or comprising world-class players, performers, etc.:
(a world-class tennis tournament.)
3. Informal. being a notorious example of its kind:
(a world-class slob.)

[JerryUnderscore]

I'm so glad this conversation has moved from the Victoria Park arena to the CalgaryNext project to the merits of playing CFL football indoors and now what defines a world-class city and whether or not Calgary is it.

Keep going your thing CP.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by RM14

world-class
(adjective)
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/world-class


1. ranking among the world's best; outstanding:
(a world-class orchestra.)
2. attracting or comprising world-class players, performers, etc.:
(a world-class tennis tournament.)
3. Informal. being a notorious example of its kind:
(a world-class slob.)

Ugh, so now we need a world class tennis facility too?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Keep going your thing CP.

Dam right! CP will never stop going its thing man..

[RT14]

Originally Posted by Joborule

For the yellow, maybe you could say that 15 years ago, but that's not really the case anymore. Maybe the core business area may not be that busy, but the urban areas like Stephen Ave, 17th Ave, 4th street, and nearby areas like Kensington have plenty of people out and about on the weekend nights.

Having just spent a couple weeks doing a job in downtown Vancouver, with many night shifts, I can tell you that it is on another level of fun and interesting things going on at night. There are people everywhere, streets lit up, music playing, things going on. It was really cool and my first thought was, 'well this is something Calgary doesn't have'. It gave me a new appreciation for Vancouver I never had before but I'd still rather live in Calgary.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I'm so glad this conversation has moved from the Victoria Park arena to the CalgaryNext project to the merits of playing CFL football indoors and now what defines a world-class city and whether or not Calgary is it.

Keep going your thing CP.

If CP were doing it's thing this thread would be about Mark Jankowski.

[Freeway]

For the curious types, we've published the responses we received from mayoral candidates to our arena survey.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/10/10/c...-on-the-arena/

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Freeway

For the curious types, we've published the responses we received from mayoral candidates to our arena survey.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/10/10/c...-on-the-arena/

Thanks for the work.

Is anyone surprised that Nenshi and Chabot are the only candidates who gave complete, reasoned answers? Bill Smith needs more information to make a decision but he knows for sure that Nenshi is bad. The rest of the candidates ranged from underwhelming to confusing.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Freeway

For the curious types, we've published the responses we received from mayoral candidates to our arena survey.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/10/10/c...-on-the-arena/

"Only after seeing all aspects of the negotiations could I form an opinion of what role taxpayers could and should play.# Without knowing those details I could not in good conscience offer an opinion on the merits of city contributions including land, infrastructure tie-ins, road network expansion, or even Saddledome demolition."


AKA it would be great if I had a plan, but I don't.

Jesus Christ Bill, all the information is out there. Educate yourself.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Freeway

For the curious types, we've published the responses we received from mayoral candidates to our arena survey.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/10/10/c...-on-the-arena/

Dr. Gabriel speaks in first person, or response was written by someone else.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Ugh, so now we need a world class tennis facility too?

Driven past Lord Beaverbrook Highschool recently?

[calgaryblood]

Bill Smith as mayor would be a disaster.

[kermitology]

Bill Smith basically said that he has the same position as Nenshi, public funds for public benefit, but says that a deal will never get done with Nenshi at the table.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Bill Smith as mayor would be a disaster.

Absolutely. His vagueness should be absolutely scary to any voter that takes the time to think about what he is actually saying. Dude just says easy answers; he really has no clue or any type of logical thought process.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I'm so glad this conversation has moved from the Victoria Park arena to the CalgaryNext project to the merits of playing CFL football indoors and now what defines a world-class city and whether or not Calgary is it.

Keep going your thing CP.

Arena/stadium discussions all follow the same script. It's inevitable.

I used to buy the rhetoric, and was one of the people who saw an arena as more of a need than a want. Now I still support a portion of public monies going towards these projects but it is a much smaller percent than I used to support.

I really like the cities proposal as I understand it, but as long as other municipalities are willing to contribute more it will be a tough standoff.

We built an arena to keep the Warriors in MJ and it is a fantastic facility for our city, but it is costly and the Warriors reap the lions share from the deal. Being a public owned facility there is a ton of bureaucracy that has hampered management of it, and it is a burden on the city. I don't know how you get away from that without giving away too much money.

From what I understand the Flames want full control of the facility, which means they make the profits from all events there, not just hockey. That is a hell of a lot of money and the city should be able to get a fair portion of that back through rent or taxes.

[EldrickOnIce]

^ I think that's a valuable point not often raised. It is one thing to provide exceptions to the Flames hockey club to operate successfully in this market as the anchor tenant for a new building, and another for CSEG to want a free ride to make money from non hockey related activities.
Is there any room for a Northlands type scenario, where a management group pays a larger tax burden in exchange for non hockey related revenue?
Or maybe I lack some fundamental understanding...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

^ I think that's a valuable point not often raised. It is one thing to provide exceptions to the Flames hockey club to operate successfully in this market as the anchor tenant for a new building, and another for CSEG to want a free ride to make money from non hockey related activities.
Is there any room for a Northlands type scenario, where a management group pays a larger tax burden in exchange for non hockey related revenue?
Or maybe I lack some fundamental understanding...

I wondered that as well. It seems like a decent basis for compromise. But it would require negotiation. Which neither party has really done.