Has Lazar proven he deserves to be in the starting 12 thus far?

[JerryUnderscore]

Stajan is exactly what you want in your fourth line. Waiving him is absurd. Stajan - Janko - Lazar would be an acceptable fourth line.

Maybe Brouwer can find a new role as a player-coach mentoring the players. That's why we gave him the 'A' right?

[FBI]

I think that "A" is going to be gone pretty soon. By game 10?

[nightfx]

Yes please, Backlund has deserved an 'A' since before Brouwer came here.

[TheScorpion]

I'd rather any of Backlund, Brodie, Versteeg, or Hamonic get the A instead of Brouwer.

[btimbit]

It should be on Backlund, plain and simple. Brodie next if someone gets injured

[Machiavelli]

Never should have been just handed to Brouwer

[Stud_McCool]

Came to read about Lazar. Reading about Brouwer instead.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

I agree here, I don't have any complaints about Stajan so far. He's looked like a very effective fourth line player.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

4. Stajan right now has positive return value, and should return an asset that can replace an asset lost over the last two years (Elliott / Stone / Hamonic / Lazar trades). Especially when the otherwise best team in the NHL and two time defending champs need not one but three centers to round out their roster+depth, having lost all three of Bonino, Cullen, and Sundqvist this offseason.


To add to your point (2) though - Stajan has started the season with 58.54% xGF% so far after being 50.4% over a larger sample last year (40.46 DZS%) - a team that wants a solid fourth line or even a competent third line would love to have a Matt Stajan there to drag anchorweights around or better yet actually have a reliable, contributing bottom line. Small sample this year so far, sure, but waiving Stajan would be outright stupid considering it would be based on the same sample. He's done nothing to warrant that.

What are you suggesting Stajan would return in a trade?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It should be on Backlund, plain and simple. Brodie next if someone gets injured

It seems to be an obvious choice. They've simply not seemed to want to give it to him, or maybe he doesn't want it. Maybe he's just not a guy the others look to (same with Stajan who seems to be a natural if you want that veteran type). Maybe he's too quiet in the room, maybe he keeps to himself. It's clear from choices made not just on this team that it's not always the best performers who get an A.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What are you suggesting Stajan would return in a trade?

Treliving seems to be a wizard at getting good returns for marginal guys, or guy's who are the end of the string - Glencross comes to mind. IMO Stajan is worth more to a team than Glencross was at the time, just because he's more versatile and plays a better position.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What are you suggesting Stajan would return in a trade?

I think that's the wrong question to ask.

Stajan is exactly what you want in a fourth line player. If you trade him you would have to replace that production somewhere. Jankowski might be able to do that but when injuries happen suddenly you're placing someone else in that fourth line role because you traded Stajan.

Stajan makes the team better. If we were a draft lottery team I could understand trading him but since we're not there's no point.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I think that's the wrong question to ask.

Stajan is exactly what you want in a fourth line player. If you trade him you would have to replace that production somewhere. Jankowski might be able to do that but when injuries happen suddenly you're placing someone else in that fourth line role because you traded Stajan.

Stajan makes the team better. If we were a draft lottery team I could understand trading him but since we're not there's no point.

There are no takers for Brouwer.
So Jankowski is limited to the insurance policy this season?
I understand the logic, but...

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

There are no takers for Brouwer.
So Jankowski is limited to the insurance policy this season?
I understand the logic, but...

At this point the AHL isn't stunting Janko's development. You could maybe make the argument that he would develop better playing 10 minutes a night in the NHL but I'm not sure that's true.

Trading Stajan and bringing up Jankowski puts you in a precarious position once injuries start to occur.

I suspect that once Treliving has exhausted all avenues for trading Brouwer we will see him healthy scratched the way Wideman was last year.

[TheFlamesVan]

I was also going to agree with taking a flame regular out of the lineup to make room for Lazar... however due to new CP rules, this player shall not be named here without whining. Regardless of him being related to the topic. So please cross reference this post, with post #116 in the Troy "Transgressions" Brouwer thread, for my opinion.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Brouwer has had one bad season. Flames fans here acting like he didn't average 20 goals and 38 points over 7 consecutive seasons prior to that.

Matbe if he had a severe injury, or was in the sunset of his career, you could make a convincing argument that his NHL days are done. But he was just coming off of a dominant playoff performance at the end of yet-another 39 point season.

Maybe it was a coaching issue last year, maybe he got a bit fat and complacent on his new contract, I dont claim to know why he had a bad season.

But it's highly uncommon for someone to inexplicably go from being a key top-6 player on a contending team, to waiver-wire fodder with no future in the NHL, in the course of one summer.

He was terrible last season, no question. But I think it's foolish just to say "this is who he is now", and flush him without giving him a solid chance to put last season behind him and find his game again. Not just for his sake, but from an asset management standpoint.

Also, something something Lazar. The kid's been decent, but not somebody you go making roster moves for.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

There are no takers for Brouwer.
So Jankowski is limited to the insurance policy this season?
I understand the logic, but...

I agree with the above - no takers for Brouwer - especially this year with his Full NTC in effect. I do however think he's the solution and I do think trading Stajan wouldn't be as detrimental as Jerry is saying it would be.

Brouwer is a winger who can take face-offs if needed and do relatively well at it too ala Iginla all those years for us. Taking a closer peak at his stat lines for face-offs and this isn't just a small sample size ~ especially his time in Washington where they leaned quite a bit on this aspect of his game:

12/13 WSH Year 1: FOW:111 FOL:121 FO%:47.8 (hits 108)
13/14 WSH Year 2: FOW:223 FOL:213 FO%:51.1 (hits 210)
14/15 WSH Year 3: FOW:251 FOL:190 FO%:56.9 (hits 206)
15/16 STL Year 1: FOW:65 FOL:49 FO%:57.0 (hits 200)
16/17 CGY Year 1: FOW:20 FOL:44 FO%:31.3 (hits 171)

St louis and Calgary clearly haven't leaned on the face-off aspect of Brouwer's game but I think he actually could be a decent 4th line centre for us if injuries forced that hand and trading Stajan isn't a bad option for us - in fact he's probably the easiest to trade at this time as he provides the team trading for him the most value for an attractive remaining contract especially if we retained a portion.

Trading Stajan opens up the 4th lines centre for Jankowski and if injuries happen Janko can easily slot up into the top 9 while Brouwer could shoulder 4th line centre duties as we get healthy.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Jagr ~ Scoring line one: 17 mins
Versteeg - Monahan - Ferland ~ Scoring line two: 17 mins
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik ~ Shutdown line 16: mins
Brouwer - Jankowski - Lazar ~ Energy line 10: mins
Glass, Hamilton

Glass slots in when we need a fighter, Hamilton loafs some more, those 12 forwards are a solid, solid group.

[Matty81]

Stajan would not be easy to move either. 3.125 mil cap hit for a bottom 6 guy. Just 14 teams have that kind of cap room amd stajan has a 10 team modified ntc as well.

Best bet would be if they retain salary and even let's say they retain half I wonder what the market for a 1.6 mil bottom 6 guy who can limit his market would be.

I think Hamilton to the A is the best bet, we would for sure clear. But you wonder about Dougie and if Freddie is part of his deal somehow as crazy as that sounds. He was outplayed by Hathaway and Janko in preseason... Why did he get a pass?

[FBI]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Brouwer has had one bad season. Flames fans here acting like he didn't average 20 goals and 38 points over 7 consecutive seasons prior to that.

Matbe if he had a severe injury, or was in the sunset of his career, you could make a convincing argument that his NHL days are done. But he was just coming off of a dominant playoff performance at the end of yet-another 39 point season.

Maybe it was a coaching issue last year, maybe he got a bit fat and complacent on his new contract, I dont claim to know why he had a bad season.

But it's highly uncommon for someone to inexplicably go from being a key top-6 player on a contending team, to waiver-wire fodder with no future in the NHL, in the course of one summer.

He was terrible last season, no question. But I think it's foolish just to say "this is who he is now", and flush him without giving him a solid chance to put last season behind him and find his game again. Not just for his sake, but from an asset management standpoint.

Also, something something Lazar. The kid's been decent, but not somebody you go making roster moves for.

I dunno man. The league is changing. It's getting younger and faster. If you are slow and getting older and having bad years you could be in trouble. See Hudler's fall and Glencross as well. Lots of these 30+ guys that used to be relied on are dropping off the face of the earth and fast and getting into PTO land.
I hope Brouwer changes my mind about him but I see buy out and out of the league pretty soon. There is nothing he has done in Calgary that gives me any hope for him.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Brouwer has had one bad season. Flames fans here acting like he didn't average 20 goals and 38 points over 7 consecutive seasons prior to that.

Matbe if he had a severe injury, or was in the sunset of his career, you could make a convincing argument that his NHL days are done. But he was just coming off of a dominant playoff performance at the end of yet-another 39 point season.

Maybe it was a coaching issue last year, maybe he got a bit fat and complacent on his new contract, I dont claim to know why he had a bad season.

But it's highly uncommon for someone to inexplicably go from being a key top-6 player on a contending team, to waiver-wire fodder with no future in the NHL, in the course of one summer.

He was terrible last season, no question. But I think it's foolish just to say "this is who he is now", and flush him without giving him a solid chance to put last season behind him and find his game again. Not just for his sake, but from an asset management standpoint.

Also, something something Lazar. The kid's been decent, but not somebody you go making roster moves for.

I agree in principle, but Brouwer hasn't really given us any indication that this ISN'T the player he is now. I'm ok giving him another 10 games, but if he isn't much better than now, then I'm resigned to the fact that he isn't likely to improve.

Besides which, I think we all have to recognize that he was a 3rd liner at best on previous teams, but he played with some skilled guys that helped out his numbers.