[News] Flames announce 2017/18 opening day roster. Jankowski assigned to Stockton

[Beninho]

Regardless of Jankowski can we shoot Freddie Hamilton into the sun already? He's a nothing player and is a waist of space on an NHL roster, not big, not fast, doesn't hit. I'd rather have Agostino

[Love]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The "cheap, low skill players" is what fans say. Players, like Iginla for instance, say they play like they are 5 feet taller when they have a fighter in the lineup. So, according to professional hockey players, they serve a purpose.

I look forward, like many, to the day where they don't. But in todays NHL, they still do, unfortunately.

How many fighters did the repeating cup champs have in their lineup both years?

[Beninho]

This is also a terrible move, Janko would help us vs the Oilers, we need more skill up front even if it's on the 4th line. Stajan should not be the 4th line center, we have a center who is better at everything, bigger, stronger, and faster. He's a good guy that's about it at this point. He's not that great at killing penalties, right about as good as Bouma was. If Janko isn't back in the next 2 weeks I'll be very dissapointed. Can't believe Glass is on this team but oh well

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Jankowski is hopefully hearing the message correctly that he needs to become a fighter and develop CTE before he can be considered for a roll in the top hockey league in the world.

[GoJetsGo]

A lot of conjecture and over-reactions when (at this point) this may very well be a paper transaction.

I don't like it at all (especially because I was in the 'don't offer glass a contract' camp)... but I recognize things can change a lot in the next few days / week and that there may be a good reason for this.

Will reserve judgement until then.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Love

How many fighters did the repeating cup champs have in their lineup both years?

How many players do they have that are better than every single player that has ever played for this franchise (minus soon-to-be-Jagr)?

The Pens are not a model for sucess

[Reign of Fire]

Bottom line is they need to find a way to bring him up as soon as possible, not a good message when you say kids will be given an opportunity to earn a spot.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The "cheap, low skill players" is what fans say. Players, like Iginla for instance, say they play like they are 5 feet taller when they have a fighter in the lineup. So, according to professional hockey players, they serve a purpose.

I look forward, like many, to the day where they don't. But in todays NHL, they still do, unfortunately.

I agree. Fighters like Oliwa, McGrattan, and Hunter played a real role and could change a game's momentum. Too bad it also results in brain damage, otherwise it would still be a thing.

But FDW wasn't talking about fighters. It was energy/grinder lines. So, assuming that's a thing, what's the absolute best "energy line" in the NHL today. Got one?? So, if there were no salary cap in today's NHL, would the NYR be clamoring to sign those guys? No.

"Cheap" is the primary qualification for 4th line now. Cheap and energetic is better. Cheap, defensively aware, and somewhat skilled would be even better. Janko has the "cheap" figured out, and aside from face-punching he's better in every respect than Lazar, Hamilton, Glass, Hathaway right now.

I'm not complaining about the team's decision... I'm saying there's no reason anymore to say that an "energy" player is preferable to a better skilled player, costs being equal.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

How many players do they have that are better than every single player that has ever played for this franchise (minus soon-to-be-Jagr)?

The Pens are not a model for sucess

I'll give you 2010-11 Bruins and 2013-14 Kings but that's about it for the last decade of cup winners.

For what it's worth, neither of the two teams with three cup wins maintain enforcers as a part of their cup winning strategy.

LA just happens to have hockey players that can also fight, which is how the toughness issue should be handled, not by signing a guy that will be deadweight for 90% of the season.

[Love]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

How many players do they have that are better than every single player that has ever played for this franchise (minus soon-to-be-Jagr)?

The Pens are not a model for sucess

How many fighters did the 2015 Hawks have?

Skill beats useless size every single time

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Love

Skill beats useless size every single time

Except in a fight.

[kehatch]

The coach had to bag skate the team for playing without intensity IN THE PRESEASON. Keep all of the veterans and demote the one prospect to come out and play. Great decision.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by devo22

creating room for Jagr is simple - they just assign Hathaway to Stockton. Done.

Jankowski simply gets shafted because two depth forwards have NTCs and huge contracts, another one is on the team for being a brother, another one is safe because they traded a 2nd for him and another one is there for good old truculence. IMO Janko is better and has earned a spot over all of them and just an unfortunate victim of the numbers game ... probably takes an injury or two before he's back. And that sucks because he's really earned a spot.

This is a really good post. My guess is that he is back sooner than later. The Flames probably want to limit on ice changes so that they can get a good start out of the gate. Jankowski..., the coaching and management have been raving about him, but pressing needs need to be taken care of so that we don't run into the same problem as last season when we had too many guys trying to learn the system..

Tre has been working hard to put the pieces together in the right way and in due time.

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Regardless of Jankowski can we shoot Freddie Hamilton into the sun already? He's a nothing player and is a waist of space on an NHL roster, not big, not fast, doesn't hit. I'd rather have Agostino

Come on. There is way too much "shooting players into the sun" going on around here. Shooting someone into the sun used to mean something. Freddie does what is asked of him and hardly ever looks like a liability.

Jankowski will be back and these overreactions will look silly.

[Love]

This is only so frustrating because this team is 95% so good.

Ferland with Mony & Johnny? Great.

3M? Great.

Gio/Dougie? Thumbs up.

Brodie/Hamonic? Yes please.

Stone as our#5 D? Amazing.

Versteeg and Bennett can't wait for Jagr to get here soon enough.

Bartkowski is a block head.

Tanner Glass is not good.

Brouwer is an anchor.

Jankowski is a 6'5 2 way forward with size, skill, hands and defensive awareness. He brings something other than useless "energy" for 5 minutes a night. He has nothing left to learn from the AHL anymore. We've all seen those statistics posted that have demonstrated how he was in the 99th and even 100th percentile for AHL production. He is an NHL'er. He lit up the preseason. I don't care if the plan is to have him up by game 5. He gives us a better chance to win tomorrow than at least 4 of the forwards playing above him, and for that I am upset.

[bubbsy]

We are freaking out a bit too much about the 4th line....

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

How many players do they have that are better than every single player that has ever played for this franchise (minus soon-to-be-Jagr)?

The Pens are not a model for sucess

Why is a successful team not a model for success exactly? Especially one that is so much more than Crosby and Malkin. We are talking about so-called 4th line construction, not 1st and 2nd line construction, and the Penguins got a LOT of use out of their fourth line and third defense pair last year so ignoring that is just silly.

Further to that, Tanner Glass along with CP favorite Deryk Engelland played on the 2012-14 Penguins, two perennial UNDERACHIEVING teams that didn't start living up to their potential until they completely revamped their approach and stopped employing these kind of "sheriffs" and actually modelled their roster construction after the Chicago Blackhawks.

Modelling your team after the penguins means modelling your team after the Chicago Blackhawks.

That's five of the last eight Stanley Cups there as a model. That's throwing away a pretty significant group of winners if you're not going to model a team essentially built around Johnny Gaudreau after those teams.


And who were the players used on that Pens fourth line? Not Crosby, Malkin, or Kessel. But it was an excellent fourth line and a huge part of their cup wins:

Matt Cullen, who was the anchor. A do-it all two-way center. Not a face puncher or a big hitter.

The wingers he saw the most playoff ice time with were:

Tom Kuhnhackl who had more points last year in 57 games than Tanner Glass had in 134 with the Rangers. Scoring logs show only one of his points was assisted by Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin

Scott Wilson, a guy who had 26 even strength points last year with only six of those being a direct result of Crosby or Malkin. That's a fourth liner with one less 5v5 point than Frolik had last year. Getting 2nd liner type even strength production out of your fourth line... that's not going to happen if Tanner Glass type players are on that line as they don't contribute anything offensively.

Chris Kunitz, who even in his washed up old age would probably be an upgrade on all five wingers who made our fourth line ahead of Mark Jankowski. A grinder, yes, but a skilled grinder not just a plug.

Carl Hagelin, who is basically the Penguins' version of Frolik

Sorry, but your premise - that having great players makes you a poor model for success is flawed. There was more that went into the success of that team than having the two best players. That team has had high-expectation seasons end unsuccessfully when not built around its current model. They are very much THE model franchise because of how quickly and efficiently they retooled their peripheral roster in around December 2015 into a two-time cup winner after being out-of-the-playoffs-at-the-time. And a big part of that was no longer "overcooking" prospects like Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl (and eventually Guentzal, who started last year as an AHL rookie just like Jankowski)

[JerryUnderscore]

First of all, hockey is first and foremost a business.

As fans we can sit here and say "waive this guy, send that guy down!" but it's not that easy. If you waive Stajan or Brouwer, the vast majority of their cap hit stays in the books. Only $950k comes off the books.

The only option is a trade and no team is going to trade for a player sitting up in the press box. So Gulutzan might be instructed to play Brouwer in the most positive situations, that way pro scouts can see him in action.

What would we, as fans, rather see: Brouwer down in the minors still contributing $3.55M against the cap and Jankowski on the opening day roster? Or Jankowski sent down for a couple days and Brouwer traded to a team like St. Louis who might actually want a player like Brouwer?

Secondly, the NHL isn't a developmental league and the Flames have turned a corner into contention. The question we shouldn't ask is, "Did Jankowski earn a spot?" Instead, we should ask "What will most contribute to the long-term success of the franchise?"

Treliving has said, and I agree with him, you can't overcook prospects in the minors. It's way better to over-develop a player in the AHL than to rush them to the NHL and have them fail. We only have to look up the QE2 to see what happens when you rush players to quickly.

I suspect Jankowski will be back up with the team sooner rather than later. But even if he's not, playing big minutes in the AHL isn't a bad thing for his development.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Love

This is only so frustrating because this team is 95% so good.

Ferland with Mony & Johnny? Great.

3M? Great.

Gio/Dougie? Thumbs up.

Brodie/Hamonic? Yes please.

Stone as our#5 D? Amazing.

Versteeg and Bennett can't wait for Jagr to get here soon enough.

Bartkowski is a block head.

Tanner Glass is not good.

Brouwer is an anchor.

Jankowski is a 6'5 2 way forward with size, skill, hands and defensive awareness. He brings something other than useless "energy" for 5 minutes a night. He has nothing left to learn from the AHL anymore. We've all seen those statistics posted that have demonstrated how he was in the 99th and even 100th percentile for AHL production. He is an NHL'er. He lit up the preseason. I don't care if the plan is to have him up by game 5. He gives us a better chance to win tomorrow than at least 4 of the forwards playing above him, and for that I am upset.

Sure he gives us size and some nice intangibles but if you throw him in while Jagr and a few other guys are learning a new system it has the potential to set us back. Consider that the Flames organization has to make rational decisions based on what they know and need to do. GG probably has a mandate from BT and management that they need to start off on the right foot and make sure the players are focused and ramped up and intense. The over reactions by some on here are often irrational because they don't have all the information to support why the decision/s are made in the first place.

Tre is doing all he can to make sure we have the players we need, but there has to be respect for the process because it is a lot harder and more complicated than just snapping fingers.

[Fire]

Hopefully Jankowski isn't reacting as poorly to this move like many fans are. Pretty sure that answer is no, he's a professional.