Lupul accusses the Leafs of being big stinky cheaters

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I think Hossa's situation is legit, I listened to some interviews with other NHL players and it sounded like they were aware he was having issues with his gear (prior to going on LTIR).

I don't dispute he may have a rash but it's really fishy that the rash became unbearable the four months in between the end of last season when he was getting paid $4 million and the beginning of this season where he was set to earn $1 million. Does anyone really believe this is anything other than a player and team circumventing the cap? This kind of stuff is CFL level shadiness IMO. No way this ever happens in a league like the NFL.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't dispute he may have a rash but it's really fishy that the rash became unbearable the four months in between the end of last season when he was getting paid $4 million and the beginning of this season where he was set to earn $1 million. Does anyone really believe this is anything other than a player and team circumventing the cap? This kind of stuff is CFL level shadiness IMO. No way this ever happens in a league like the NFL.

Wouldn't you put up with a really bad rash for $4 million?

[Roof-Daddy]

Sure he has a rash. Thats not the bull#### part. The bull#### is how the rash suddenly became unbearable the moment his salary dropped to a million bucks.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Wouldn't you put up with a really bad rash for $4 million?

Sure but I would put up with the same rash for $1 million. He never missed a single game from the issue. Not a single documented game that I know of which tells me it's more of a nuisance thing than something that is really stopping him from playing. When he signed the deal he never planned on playing in the last years much like Kipper with his Flames deal.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sure but I would put up with the same rash for $1 million. He never missed a single game from the issue. Not a single documented game that I know of which tells me it's more of a nuisance thing than something that is really stopping him from playing. When he signed the deal he never planned on playing in the last years much like Kipper with his Flames deal.

Yeah but put it in the context of your current job, not $1 million.

If you had enough $ to retire, and going to work caused a terribly painful rash, would you show up for 25% of your salary?

I don't know how the league can really fight this. Would it be different if he was retiring/LTIR because of a Cronic knee pain? Back Pain?

Of course he was willing to put up with more pain for more $$. But that in itself doesn't make it cap circumvention. You can't force the player to play through an injury (which this is deemed as)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Yeah but put it in the context of your current job, not $1 million.

If you had enough $ to retire, and going to work caused a terribly painful rash, would you show up for 25% of your salary?

I don't know how the league can really fight this. Would it be different if he was retiring/LTIR because of a Cronic knee pain? Back Pain?

Of course he was willing to put up with more pain for more $$. But that in itself doesn't make it cap circumvention. You can't force the player to play through an injury (which this is deemed as)

Ok, but if he wants to play or not for the money is not the issue. The issue is that the Hawks will get cap relief from it and they shouldn't because they are clearly circumventing the CBA. You are absolutely right, Hossa does not want to make the effort to take meds and treatment to play for what is owed him at this stage yet he managed to do exactly that his whole career before his salary massively dropped. The difference between this and chronic pain is that he has had the condition for years and had no problem playing through it before with the proper medication. He can play out his contract, he has just chosen not to and the Hawks have used it as a loop hole for cap relief.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok, but if he wants to play or not for the money is not the issue. The issue is that the Hawks will get cap relief from it and they shouldn't because they are clearly circumventing the CBA. You are absolutely right, Hossa does not want to make the effort to take meds and treatment to play for what is owed him at this stage yet he managed to do exactly that his whole career before his salary massively dropped. The difference between this and chronic pain is that he has had the condition for years and had no problem playing through it before with the proper medication. He can play out his contract, he has just chosen not to and the Hawks have used it as a loop hole for cap relief.

How are the Hawks using it to circumvent the CBA......This is a rule of the CBA if a player can not continue their career, no different then any other injury. So your issue IS the specific injury, not the rule. I still do not see how it is different then a chronic knee or back injury that a player decided isn't worth the pain of playing through anymore.

HOSSA decided not to play through the pain anymore. The Hawks can not, by the rules of the CBA, FORCE Hossa to play.

Sure they have probably talked about this before, but that's just your theory.

What do you want the Hawks or the league to do? "Sorry Hawks, a player refuses to continue his playing career for what the doctors deem is a valid reason. But since this is helpful to you, we will punish you for a players decision....??"

This isn't the Hawks stopping him from playing like the Kings.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

How are the Hawks using it though.

HOSSA decided not to play through the pain anymore. The Hawks can not, by the rules of the CBA, FORCE Hossa to play.

Sure they have probably talked about this before, but that's just your theory.

What do you want the Hawks or the league to do? "Sorry Hawks, a player refuses to continue his playing career for what the doctors deem is a valid reason. But since this is helpful to you, we will punish you for a players decision....??"

This isn't the Hawks stopping him from playing like the Kings.

But the Hawks signed Hossa to that contract knowing there would be recapture penalties or that they would be on the hook for his full cap hit if he retired early correct? So if he has a condition that will not allow him to play hockey anymore why is he not retiring? Do you see now why it stinks?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

But the Hawks signed Hossa to that contract knowing there would be recapture penalties or that they would be on the hook for his full cap hit if he retired early correct? So if he has a condition that will not allow him to play hockey anymore why is he not retiring? Do you see now why it stinks?

Recapture didn't exist when they signed him. It was added in to affect existing contracts (Don't even get me started on the BS of that!)

This condition did not exist at the time of signing the contract (No evidence at least or mention that it goes back that far I can find)

So why would he retire if the rules of the CBA says this is medical and he gets paid.

If I develop a knee injury after my 10 year contract is signed and can't continue should I retire and give up the money I am entitled too?

You don't agree with the TYPE of injury, not the actual process or rules of the CBA. Or do you think LTIR for retired players should not exist at all? (Perhaps a fair argument, NBA used to be like this)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Recapture didn't exist when they signed him. It was added in to affect existing contracts (Don't even get me started on the BS of that!)

This condition did not exist at the time of signing the contract (No evidence at least or mention that it goes back that far I can find)

So why would he retire if the rules of the CBA says this is medical and he gets paid.

If I develop a knee injury after my 10 year contract and can't continue should I retire and give up the money I am entitled too?

You don't agree with the TYPE of injury, not the actual process or rules of the CBA. Or do you think LTIR for retired players should not exist at all? (Perhaps a fair argument, NBA used to be like this)

Well first off these contracts were shady to begin with and never should have been allowed. The Hawks organization knew what the rules were when they agreed with the rest of the owners on it, it does not matter if they signed the deal before it came into effect. You still have to obey a new law if it is put into place even if you are used to doing things before it was implemented.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well first off these contracts were shady to begin with and never should have been allowed. The Hawks organization knew what the rules were when they agreed with the rest of the owners on it, it does not matter if they signed the deal before it came into effect. You still have to obey a new law if it is put into place even if you are used to doing things before it was implemented.

They are obeying the new rule. 100%

And in non CBA world you can't change the rules to change an existing contract. But you are right the Hawks agreed and would have payed recapture IF Hossa retired, which he didn't.

Your argument comes down to "I don't believe in Hossa's injury"

However the NHL doctors do. And no team has come out either speaking against their ruling. And there is no evidence he is faking this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

They are obeying the new rule. 100%

And in non CBA world you can't change the rules to change an existing contract. But you are right the Hawks agreed and would have payed recapture IF Hossa retired, which he didn't.

Your argument comes down to "I don't believe in Hossa's injury"

However the NHL doctors do. And no team has come out either speaking against their ruling. And there is no evidence he is faking this.

From what was said a lot of teams complained which means a lot of teams smelled something fishy. We don't know what teams complained so why would we know if any teams have spoken up about the ruling seeing it's all done behind closed doors? I don't doubt he has a skin condition but it's probably so grey area that the NHL can conveniently look the other way because it's a golden goose franchise for the league. We gave seen the NHL suspend a 1st round pick from the Devils only to give one back so the league has shown that they can't be trusted to police themselves accordingly.

The reality is that if Hossa was set to make $4 million this season he's probably in the Hawks lineup this week with or without this skin condition.

[White Out 403]

woops jesus wrong thread.