Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Well hopefully that's not the case re Nenshi.

But if it is, hopefully Nenshi will do some actual math and realize there is a very real economic benefit and a very real economic impact if the team left, ie)

- business tax on the property (which still blows me away we have this but this is real)
- provincial corporate taxes
- employees working there that spend money which drives the economy
- people living in the city who spend money in and around the arena that drives the economy

Hopefully facts and numbers can determine an agreeable return for both the City and the Flamea.

There is a better chance Nenshi is re-elected and turns the Saddledome into a library.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

What do you do all summer?

I play summer hockey and softball. I go camping. I watch CFL and MLB on TV and the pubs.

You spend your summer in Libraries and looking at the Bow Towers?

I must really be missing something here! But that's ok, seems to go along with the typical argument here!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

There is a better chance Nenshi is re-elected and turns the Saddledome into a library.

It's already quiet enough

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't think they do. You may think Ken King is full of ####, and that's fine, but he has repeatedly stated that this chapter is over and its time to move on. The owners of the team are pretty committed when they make a decision, and the decision appears to have been made. I just hope the fans will accept the path the ownership has charted moving forward, and all possible outcomes.

I think that means that for the foreseeable future the Flames plan to operate out of the Saddledome and will do so with a self-imposed budget. This means that the days of paying to the cap are probably done and it will result in operational changes for the team in the future. If that means that they can no longer afford players, so be it, those players will be cast aside (its been nice knowing you Mr. Backlund) and there will be no possibility of increasing the funds available, even short term. If the team can't compete, that is an outcome (expected) they will deal with downstream.

If, as a result of operational challenges, the team is no longer generating revenues or appears to be profitable as a result of the economic conditions affecting the club, the owners will call it a day and look for someone else to assume the ownership of the hockey team. I'm sure they will look locally, but based on the economics of building, finding a local owner may not be easy. It may be much easier to find an owner elsewhere who has desires of moving the team to where they can be a second tenant for their building. I think this is a much more likely outcome than finding local ownership, unless the citizens of Calgary want to go Green Bay Packer and publicly own the team.

I just don't see the owners coming back to the negotiation table as it appears they believe there is nothing left to negotiate. The idea is dead, and its time to move on. Now its just a matter of nature taking its course.

So, I guess that means that we can close the thread, there will never be an arena for the Flames. Not this incarnation anyway. Decision made. Team will play out it’s days and leave or fold.

Are you such an apologist that you honestly believe that they’re actually done?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I should have clarified. My point was a guy like Hotchkiss would have foreseen the negative reaction to trotting out Bettman and would have pursued a different PR strategy.

Pure speculation. Plus he only had a 22% stake in the club. Even if he disagreed it might not make a difference.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? What's he said lately? Are you talking about the Chamber of Commerce, where he refused to be dragged into a discussion about the arena? Seems they are trying to move forward, but people keep asking questions about the arena issue, which he is refusing to answer.

You can't be serious. Are we talking about the same chamber meeting where he basically talked about how important the Flames were to the city and the economic benefits of having them here? That chamber meeting would have probably never happened if it wasn't for this entire arena debacle.

The point of the meeting was to lay out the case for why the Flames are important to the city and by proxy need a new arena.

I mean kudos to you for thinking how stunning and brave Ken King is for refusing to be dragged into a discussion about the arena.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

^idiotic take is idiotic, detached from the reality around us

Are you copying and pasting this response everywhere?

[Roughneck]

New Era seems like the guy who has paid the sticker price on every car he's bought because "that's what they said it costs."

[Northendzone]

I would think if the city offered up a deal closer to the flames vision, they would go back into the room

[Fire]

The Flames will have to wait for Nenshi to be out of office, before any significant movement in a arena deal will happen. It's clear Nenshi doesn't care if the Flames remain in the city or not. I know he only has one vote, blah blah blah, but when the city leader cares so little it hurts the process. I doubt Nenshi will remain Mayor longer than 2 more terms. So it might not be until 2023 until we will start seeing movement on the arena front.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I would think if the city offered up a deal closer to the flames vision, they would go back into the room

Haven't you been listening? They're done. It's over. They're not pursuing one anymore. It's finito. All we have to do is wait for the consequences now.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's what you're hoping. You are hoping this is just a standard negotiation ploy. What if it isn't? Are you prepared for the consequences?

They aren't and I am. end of story.

The report in question was not a Saddledome Foundation Report. It was compiled by the City of Calgary and was part of their risk analysis for the the Saddledome renovation.

The only thing i can find is the Flames Foundation Report https://calgary.bibliocommons.com/item/show/217634095

[ricosuave]

The CSEC's plan to raise this issue at this particular time, in this way has backfired horribly. They are simply tucking their tails between their legs and waiting for the election and its results to subside. I'm willing to bet that after the election, the parties start talking again. No one wants the outcome of leaving... Neither side. And each individual side knows that.

It's a bad game of poker.

[transplant99]

Meanwhile the City of Dallas/Arlington broke ground today on their 2nd Billion dollar plus arena in a decade.


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ington-stadium

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Fire

The Flames will have to wait for Nenshi to be out of office, before any significant movement in a arena deal will happen. It's clear Nenshi doesn't care if the Flames remain in the city or not. I know he only has one vote, blah blah blah, but when the city leader cares so little it hurts the process. I doubt Nenshi will remain Mayor longer than 2 more terms. So it might not be until 2023 until we will start seeing movement on the arena front.

I take it you only read Bettman's "take" of how their meeting went, where he claimed Nenshi doesn't care if the Flames remain"? Nenshi already came out and said that's not at all how the discussion went.

[kermitology]

*double post*

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You spend your summer in Libraries and looking at the Bow Towers?

I work for an architecture office. Why wouldn't I be legitimately interested in Calgary's architectural legacy?

My point is that declaring an institution that's largely shuttered up for 4-5 months of the year as if it's critical lynchpin of what makes a city work is asinine. Calgary isn't a seasonal resort town. By your own admission you've already figured out plenty of things to do when you don't have the steady IV drip of the Flames' regular season you apparently require to get through your day-to-day life. Why would that suddenly change under the unlikely scenario of the Flames moving?

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Cappy

https://calgary.bibliocommons.com/item/show/217634095

Damn, that's at the library!

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Fire

Pure speculation. Plus he only had a 22% stake in the club. Even if he disagreed it might not make a difference.

But if I recall correctly he was the managing partner at the time, so would have led the discussions.

I have heard different reports as to the current ownership breakdown. From equal 20% shares to Murray Edwards holding the largest individual partnership interest. I do not think he owns over 50% however.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

But if I recall correctly he was the managing partner at the time, so would have led the discussions.

I have heard different reports as to the current ownership breakdown. From equal 20% shares to Murray Edwards holding the largest individual partnership interest. I do not think he owns over 50% however.

Can swear I remember hearing that Edwards bought all of Hotchkiss' share, but that might have been speculation on part of a writer way back when.