Amazon planning second headquarters with 50,000 jobs

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think your sorely underestimating how much you would have to pay westjet to change their schedule like that.

Westjet has 168 seats on the 737-800. A daily flight would produce 168×365×2 seats to sell per year, or 122,640.

Great circle mapper has yyc-iad as 1952 miles. Westjet has a revenue per available seat mile of 14 cents per their 2016 annual report. Longer flights are generally lower, and presumably IAD could replace a flight that was below the average (it seems likely that some of their current flights are above average and some below). Assume they'd want average revenue.

122,640 seats/year × 1952 miles/seat × $0.14/mile comes to $35.5 MM

Airlines are a thin margin business, getting 5% of revenue guaranteed would make a huge difference. Plus as someone mentioned they would get all the ticket sales from new Amazon purchases as well.

AC might be better, because they could tie in with United in IAD and sell connections. Get guaranteed revenue from the deal, sell non stop tickets to business travellers, and sell connections to Florida/Caribbean to fill the plane.

[Northendzone]

I read an article that brought up a point I had never considered, and it would not surprise me if it has been brought up in this thread, but the article suggested how athe employees in hq2 could really change the housing market in a city.

The article suggested how employees of amazon changed the housing market in Seattle by driving up prices. However, the article quoted no stats to back it up these thoughts.

I suppose it would make sense if you suddenly had a large number of new buyers in a given market as hq2 starts up.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Did you miss Wisconsin just set the cost to governments for the new Amazon headquarters? Wisconsin just signed into law an incentive package for Foxconn to open up a flatscreen manufacturing plant in that state which could supply up to 13,000 jobs. The cost? $3 billion in cash on the promise Foxconn sp nds $10 billion. What does that put the incentive package for 50,000 jobs?

[GGG]

The Amazon number I suspect is similar because there is no manufacturing technology to fund. I'd wager Foxconns cost per job including all the manufacturing is much higher than amazons.

I suspect the deal ends up being a significant discount property taxes for the building that Amazon occupies plus infrastructure costs to build the Campus. So that at full build out likely about 10 Bow buildings which cost about 1.5 billion so about 15 billion to build the Campus which at a .0175% mill rate is about 250 million per year.

Something like a 50% property tax subsidy over 30 years plus 200 million up front in land. So the first 5 years are closer to 25 million per with the last few years of build out being 125 million. So average say 75 million per year for 30 years. So all told 2.5 billion in subsidies and we'll toss in 200 million for the Amazon arena

Though this is potential for a city to give them free property tax through a CRL which would put a number close to 5 billion.

But put me down for Foxxconns 3 billion number as around what Amazon gets.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Amazon number I suspect is similar because there is no manufacturing technology to fund. I'd wager Foxconns cost per job including all the manufacturing is much higher than amazons.

I suspect the deal ends up being a significant discount property taxes for the building that Amazon occupies plus infrastructure costs to build the Campus. So that at full build out likely about 10 Bow buildings which cost about 1.5 billion so about 15 billion to build the Campus which at a .0175% mill rate is about 250 million per year.

Something like a 50% property tax subsidy over 30 years plus 200 million up front in land. So the first 5 years are closer to 25 million per with the last few years of build out being 125 million. So average say 75 million per year for 30 years. So all told 2.5 billion in subsidies and we'll toss in 200 million for the Amazon arena

Though this is potential for a city to give them free property tax through a CRL which would put a number close to 5 billion.

But put me down for Foxxconns 3 billion number as around what Amazon gets.

My guess is no property tax plus no business tax plus no minimum wage ever.

[Northendzone]

^ no property tax and minimum wage....what a mess that would be, plus to me it sets a huge precedent for other business.

just say you were running a widget factory in some city in any state that employs 500 people - amazon comes in and gets a sweetheart deal on taxes and wages that you currently don't have, then what? you approach the local authorities and try and secure a similar deal, they say no - so then do you start looking at moving to some place in order to get a similar deal - or even a better deal than you have today

it will be interesting to see how this process unfolds and what happens when a final spot is selected and the ultimate trickledown effects on the winning community

to me this just seems like amazon trying to squeeze a community for everything

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^ no property tax and minimum wage....what a mess that would be, plus to me it sets a huge precedent for other business.

just say you were running a widget factory in some city in any state that employs 500 people - amazon comes in and gets a sweetheart deal on taxes and wages that you currently don't have, then what? you approach the local authorities and try and secure a similar deal, they say no - so then do you start looking at moving to some place in order to get a similar deal - or even a better deal than you have today

it will be interesting to see how this process unfolds and what happens when a final spot is selected and the ultimate trickledown effects on the winning community

to me this just seems like amazon trying to squeeze a community for everything

Flames ;-)

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Flames ;-)

Don't you need to own the building before having to play property taxes?

[Cappy]

https://medium.com/migration-issues/...n-effda4edc00f

another interesting take on the issue. This RFP is sure bringing out all the data nerds

[bluejays]

Did I read this whole thing correctly that they're expecting a huge plot of land the equivalent of 1km x 1km, but they're only putting in $5B for buildings? In Toronto that would probably build you 4 office towers. I don't get why they'd need that large of plot of land for putting in only that much money?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by fleury

Did I read this whole thing correctly that they're expecting a huge plot of land the equivalent of 1km x 1km, but they're only putting in $5B for buildings? In Toronto that would probably build you 4 office towers. I don't get why they'd need that large of plot of land for putting in only that much money?

Because they want a campus, not office towers.

[bluejays]

Point being that I don't think $5B or even $10B will cover the area in office space that large. Curious how big Googleplex and the Apple space are and how many employees they house?

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Flames ;-)

Amazon is building a mega warehouse in Opa Locka, Florida and one of the concerns is that the city let Amazon drop the wages from 37,000 a year to 28,000 (something like that).

They were going to require Amazon to provide 2300 jobs but they are only going to provide 1,000 or so.

I don't know the technicalities of the wage requirement. A bit involved for me.

It has to do with a 5 million dollar economic subsidy, and I guess there was a salary requirement attached.

I can't get the Miami Herald article to link.

Amazon will be leasing the building and there's a 5 mill subsidy thrown in there somewhere.

Opa Locka definitely needs an upgrade; it remains to be seen if they're getting the shaft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lanny_McDonald]

Here you go Missdpuck.

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...uare-foot.html

To encourage Amazon to become anchor tenant at the Carrie Meek International Business Park, Amazon received a $5 million infrastructure grant, money borrowed against a special property tax reserved for county debt. The county is expected to collect about $2 million a year in rent. In exchange, Amazon promised to create thousands of jobs.

To receive county subsidies, the developer of the Amazon facility, and its surrounding business park, was originally expected to create 2,300 new full-time jobs with an average annual salary of $37,000. However, the deal was amended to require just 1,000 new jobs, half of which would have maximum salaries of $27,499.68 without benefits. The median income in Miami-Dade County is $43,129, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
"Those are not great wages," LeRoy said. "That's right on the border of dependency.''

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by fleury

Point being that I don't think $5B or even $10B will cover the area in office space that large. Curious how big Googleplex and the Apple space are and how many employees they house?

I posted this on the first page.

Originally Posted by Barnes

They would build a campus like Apple's new campus I presume. $5billion, 14,200 employees, 175 acres, 2.8 million sq ft.



I don't even know what a 50,000 employee campus would look like and where it would fit. Imperial's Quarry Park Campus is 3,000 employees, 20 acres, 850,000 sq ft. The whole West Village including roads is like 65 acres. Forget Firepark, you'd have to line 'em up nuts to butts to get 50,000 people in that area.

The Pentagon is 6.5 million sq ft, 26,000 employees.

[Northendzone]

I wonder if 50,000 is some kind of projection based on amazon hitting/surpassing it's growth targets.

seems the place in Miami fell short of the projections.

based on figures quotes for imperial and the pentagon above - it would seem that you need about 275 sq ft per employee (apple seems to be closer to 200 sq ft) - so that gets you close to 14,000,000 sq feet - so something about 15 times the size of imperial.

that would be almost a city within a city.

after reading the articles about working at amazon, and thinking about the deal amazon will likely strike to deliver HQ2 to the winning city I find the company somewhat unattractive. although I am assuming that they likely deliver millions/trillions/gazillions in charity and other spinoff benefits to their communities - them really seem like they are willing to suck everything out of their people and communities.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I wonder if 50,000 is some kind of projection based on amazon wanting to screw as much money and benefits out of the poor sucker city it can

I think this is what you meant to say

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I wonder if 50,000 is some kind of projection based on amazon hitting/surpassing it's growth targets.

seems the place in Miami fell short of the projections.

based on figures quotes for imperial and the pentagon above - it would seem that you need about 275 sq ft per employee (apple seems to be closer to 200 sq ft) - so that gets you close to 14,000,000 sq feet - so something about 15 times the size of imperial.

that would be almost a city within a city.

after reading the articles about working at amazon, and thinking about the deal amazon will likely strike to deliver HQ2 to the winning city I find the company somewhat unattractive. although I am assuming that they likely deliver millions/trillions/gazillions in charity and other spinoff benefits to their communities - them really seem like they are willing to suck everything out of their people and communities.

For sure. Even though smaller communities with tougher times have nothing to lose by offering them a home in their city, the bigger cities have a lot to lose if Amazon isn't the future of online retail. It's great that they can offer so much to a city's economy, but if that economy becomes dependent on them, and they begin to push their weight politically, it can become a problem. An already healthy world class city like Toronto would become hugely dependent on the Amazon economy, and I would really hate to see what happens if the company fails in the future and what that would do for any city that wins that bid.

[getbak]

A two horse race between Calgary and Denver (and Calgary is in the lead)?

http://business.financialpost.com/ne...in-amazons-hq2

Scores of North American cities are expected to bid for Amazon’s second corporate headquarters, or HQ2, but only two — Calgary and Denver — are in a real race to win it, based on the giant Internet retailer’s requirements, said Adam Waterous, a member of the executive advisory committee of Calgary’s bid.

“Here’s the punch line: Based on the data, third party analysis shows that it’s a two-horse race between Denver and Calgary … and we are running the faster race,” the chief executive of Waterous Energy Fund and the former global head of investment banking at Scotiabank, said Wednesday.

“We think we have a large competitive advantage over Denver. We think we have a very good chance of winning this.”

[Fuzz]

In the event we do get this I'm not sure Calgary has a sufficient enough supply of crow to be distributed to posters in this thread.