Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Manhattanboy]

Ha I had to consult the Urban Dictionary.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ha I had to consult the Urban Dictionary.

Whomever first made the claim of astroturfing should be asked to provide a reason for making such claim other than because you appeared to be on the other side of the argument. This kind of garbage has to go somewhere else. Its becoming far too common on this site and detracts from good, healthy debate on a very important issue.

This is also one of the reasons I've changed my name (with mod approval) from a moniker to resembling my real name. Anyone care to do the same?

[Flamenspiel]

double post

[Eubee]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Nenshi isn't at the negotiating table though. Agreements such as these are almost certainly negotiated by senior staff (probably with some marching orders from the CAP based on his or her sense of what City Council would accept). Once an agreement is reached, it goes before Council for a vote. So I don't see how Nenshi's personality has much influence, if any, on the actual negotiations?

The Flames "walking away" from the arena negotiation had IMO nearly everything to do with Nenshi's personality. His smug comments during re-eletion efforts that they were getting close on a deal for a new rink, despite no disussions since late July I believe, and his immediate dismissive attitude towards NEXT have everything to do with the Flames statement that they were backing away IMO. As soon as the election is over the Flames will be back negotiating again.

[Manhattanboy]

Back on topic: The Calgary Chamber of Commerce is putting on a lunch with Ken King (moderated by Eric Francis) on the Future of the Flames: Business and Hockey on Monday, September 25 at the TELUS Convention Centre.

https://www.calgarychamber.com/inter...ess-and-hockey

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Eubee

The Flames "walking away" from the arena negotiation had IMO nearly everything to do with Nenshi's personality. His smug comments during re-eletion efforts that they were getting close on a deal for a new rink, despite no disussions since late July I believe, and his immediate dismissive attitude towards NEXT have everything to do with the Flames statement that they were backing away IMO. As soon as the election is over the Flames will be back negotiating again.

The Flames did not walk away, KK was back negotiating the next day, through the media. Nenshi is doing a great job, I don't think the Flames are as upset as we are being lead to believe. I think that KK was using hyperbole(Roman Colosseum, bla, bla bla....) as a negotiating tactic.

The eventual deal will probably be not far from the city's current offer.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Back on topic: The Calgary Chamber of Commerce is putting on a lunch with Ken King (moderated by Eric Francis) on the Future of the Flames: Business and Hockey on Monday, September 25 at the TELUS Convention Centre.

https://www.calgarychamber.com/inter...ess-and-hockey

"Moderated". I'm not convinced this will be anything other than a one sided press conference. Too bad.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Back on topic: The Calgary Chamber of Commerce is putting on a lunch with Ken King (moderated by Eric Francis)

Yeah... "Moderated"...

Eric Francis: So Ken... can you explain how someone as savvy, smart, charismatic, and devilishly handsome as you came to be so successful in the business of Hockey?

... is about how "moderated" that is going to be.

[Eubee]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The Flames did not walk away, KK was back negotiating the next day, through the media. Nenshi is doing a great job, I don't think the Flames are as upset as we are being lead to believe. I think that KK was using hyperbole(Roman Colosseum, bla, bla bla....) as a negotiating tactic.

The eventual deal will probably be not far from the city's current offer.

I agree with everything you say other than Nenshi doing a great job. Both sides have stunk up the public side of this. Hence my "walking away" being quoted. I dont believe it either but I think as Nenshi came out and said something the Flames felt was disingenuous during a run for re-election, the 'stunning' and 'bombshell' announcement that the Flames were walking away came out. King essentially said as much. I do agree though that the deal will be something near to what was being proposed. Ive heard second hand from someone golfing with one of the owners (and hence quite close with him) that theyre 95MM apart. For what that is worth (which really is nothing it being second hand and knowing zero context).

[Passe La Puck]

Having a professional sports team in Calgary increases businesses ability to attract skilled talent, contributes nearly $3 million to local charities, and approximately $300 million to the economy.

I wonder if they'll describe how they came up with that figure!?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Eubee

Ive heard second hand from someone golfing with one of the owners (and hence quite close with him) that theyre 95MM apart. For what that is worth (which really is nothing it being second hand and knowing zero context).

That they're 95M apart is common knowledge by now... 185M + 95M = 280x2 = 560M. AKA the projected cost of the Vic Park arena.

The dollar amount isn't really the sticking point anyways. The sticking point is what (and how much) revenue streams go to which investor? If the Flames don't want any mechanism that sees investors recoup their investment then they're not 95M apart they're 280M apart.

[Dr. Pepper]

How much $$$ have the Flames made since 1980? Bought the team for $16M then, have rec'd 10 expansion fees (I think), plus yearly profits. What does that add up to I wonder? Plus what's the team worth now? What's the team worth once they get a new building? PAY FOR THE DAMN NEW ARENA YOURSELVES YOU GREEDY BASTARDS!!!

[Matty81]

If true 95 Million in non guaranteed city investment is not a lot over a 35 year life of the building.

I think given the city already stands to recoup most of their investment in guaranteed property taxes, that they might reasonably recoup the rest on new development in the area and take that leap and invest 95 with no guarantee of getting it back. I think the Flames are worth that gamble, or contribution, however you want to look at it. The Flames employee and foundation economic contribution to the community alone is probably worth close to 2.5 million a year alone in property taxes, donations etc.

That said the Flames have bungled their messaging completely and really massively screwed up. The moment they brought in Bettman, one of the most universally despised people in Canada you knew this was going badly. Nenshi seems just as pigheaded as King, but King for me has a history of overseeing bad decisions for the team I love, he seems like he's really got that hardheaded old boys bulldozer attitude although I appreciate his commitment and friendliness.

I'd like to see him gone - pack up whatever is left from his jersey abortions and give him a few dozen boxes as a parting gift. I appreciate his years of service and good intentions but every one of his hires has been out of their depth or past their best buy date. Thank god at least Burke hired Treliving, first good thing that has happened in hockey ops leadership since Fletcher left.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper

How much $$$ have the Flames made since 1980? Bought the team for $16M then, have rec'd 10 expansion fees (I think), plus yearly profits. What does that add up to I wonder? Plus what's the team worth now? What's the team worth once they get a new building? PAY FOR THE DAMN NEW ARENA YOURSELVES YOU GREEDY BASTARDS!!!

One can spit out simplified, flawed logic on the other side too...why can’t the city chip in a bit more given what they paid in the early 80’s? Never mind the absolute dollar figure, but Provincial and federal money paid for the large percentage of the Saddledome (and McMahon upgrades) 35+ years ago, so municipal taxpayers have gotten a pretty good deal when it comes to stadia in this city since 1980.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah... "Moderated"...

Eric Francis: So Ken... can you explain how someone as savvy, smart, charismatic, and devilishly handsome as you came to be so successful in the business of Hockey?

... is about how "moderated" that is going to be.

"And now to our representative from the city.

Suppose for a second that YOUR house was ransacked by thugs, YOUR family tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob..."

What is your question?

"My question is about the ticket surcharge."

[calgaryblood]

Can someone post the Donald Trump picture again. It hasn't been posted this page.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Can someone post the Donald Trump picture again. It hasn't been posted this page.

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Back on topic: The Calgary Chamber of Commerce is putting on a lunch with Ken King (moderated by Eric Francis) on the Future of the Flames: Business and Hockey on Monday, September 25 at the TELUS Convention Centre.

https://www.calgarychamber.com/inter...ess-and-hockey

'All proceeds go to the Bill Smith for Mayor campaign.'

[SebC]

Do people actually think the city, itself, wants a new arena? Or did it merely identify that the Flames do and created the Victoria Park and Olympic bid plans on that basis? It may be overstating the Flames' leverage to talk about this as something the city wants idependently.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah... "Moderated"...

Eric Francis: So Ken... can you explain how someone as savvy, smart, charismatic, and devilishly handsome as you came to be so successful in the business of Hockey?

... is about how "moderated" that is going to be.

Eric Francis: "Mr. King, Mr. King - your campaign for a new arena has the momentum of a runaway freight train, why are you so popular?"