Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To be fair without the context of how or when these demands were made in the negotiation process, it is a little hard to judge their merits.

LOL. Stick to reporting the news rather than commenting it. Those demands are absurd regardless of when they were made.

[Doc Hudson]

Both sides look terrible, somehow making Edmonton look good.

Ken King's smile is irritating, no doubt.

I am curious though, what have the been talking about? They've taking years, from what I understand, to essentially get to the logical starting point. It takes two to get there.

Calgary look incompetent as a city organizationally. The major released a campaign platform that included an new arena, Victoria Park. This essentially instigated the flames poor response. Not quite sure why the Edmonton deal is not starting point (or end point).

Flames are guilty of using timing as a negotiating tool and a veiled threat with the Seattle coincidence. They could have said no comment or "we are not involving ourselves in the political campaign, but are not currently negotiating until after the election" and waited for the major to win or lose the election. If he loses, you bring Calgarynext to the next administration. If he wins, then you work towards the Victoria Park plan. I don't see the advantage in the "press conference" announcements by Bettman and King.

OR

This is planned as meetings are non-disclosure, the major wants the "against the flames, for all Calgarians" mantra to win the election, and Edwards wants to sell the team at an opportune moment.

Regardless, it comes across as childish and perfect timing to derail the team with distraction.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Edmonton does not look good. Their taxpayers got bent over by Katz and then said thank you after. And now they all get to pay twice as much to watch their crappy team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

Both sides look terrible, somehow making Edmonton look good.

Ken King's smile is irritating, no doubt.

I am curious though, what have the been talking about? They've taking years, from what I understand, to essentially get to the logical starting point. It takes two to get there.

Calgary look incompetent as a city organizationally. The major released a campaign platform that included an new arena, Victoria Park. This essentially instigated the flames poor response. Not quite sure why the Edmonton deal is not starting point (or end point).

Flames are guilty of using timing as a negotiating tool and a veiled threat with the Seattle coincidence. They could have said no comment or "we are not involving ourselves in the political campaign, but are not currently negotiating until after the election" and waited for the major to win or lose the election. If he loses, you bring Calgarynext to the next administration. If he wins, then you work towards the Victoria Park plan. I don't see the advantage in the "press conference" announcements by Bettman and King.

OR

This is planned as meetings are non-disclosure, the major wants the "against the flames, for all Calgarians" mantra to win the election, and Edwards wants to sell the team at an opportune moment.

Regardless, it comes across as childish and perfect timing to derail the team with distraction.

Monday Nenshi released a campaign video that included using the Flames/new arena as a part of his entertainment district vision.

On Tuesday King/Bettman announced there was no more talk about the Flames being involved with a new arena as they were done negotiating.

Nenshi then held this mornings presser along with a couple councillors and showed the cities proposal as they see it.

King responded with a bunch of stuff a couple hours later and said they would then roll out their proposal next week for all to see.

Thats pretty much the timeline on this thing and where we are right now.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Waiving the cost of transit on game days? Are they out of their minds?

I'm guessing they see it in two ways:

Encouraging people to ride transit means more people drinking, so more beer sales. Less reliance on providing parking (was especially important for their West Village location since they couldn't have very much of it). They sell it as a virtue of helping with traffic congestion and reducing drinking and driving that is worth the cost to the city

and

Something they can easily cede in negotiations to try and win public favor: "We've taken stuff off the table that we wanted, and the city still isn't meeting us half way!"

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh.

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

LOL. Stick to reporting the news rather than commenting it. Those demands are absurd regardless of when they were made.

Yeah just like when people are outraged when a NHL player's reported initial ask for a contract is so much higher than fan expectations and then settle for something more reasonable.

It is a negotiation, regardless of what King says. What was the context of those ridiculous demands? Were they in CSEC's initial ask and something they really didn't expect to get? Were they in response to something the city insisted on? For example, if the city insists on CSEC paying for item X did CSEC respond by saying the city needs to pay for extra police during game days? Is it even something they are still looking for?

The context somewhat matters, but probably will get overlooked by most by the outrageousness.

[Makarov]

Free transit for ticket-holders is actually a small thing that makes a lot of sense for all parties.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Free transit for ticket-holders is actually a small thing that makes a lot of sense for all parties.

Does it? If you can afford a ticket to the game and $10 beers, you can afford a $3 transit ticket. I don't get why the Flames would make such a frivolous request.

[Doc Hudson]

Sounds like there's nothing to fuss about then, thanks...

back to the real hockey talk.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Monday Nenshi released a campaign video that included using the Flames/new arena as a part of his entertainment district vision.

On Tuesday King/Bettman announced there was no more talk about the Flames being involved with a new arena as they were done negotiating.

Nenshi then held this mornings presser along with a couple councillors and showed the cities proposal as they see it.

King responded with a bunch of stuff a couple hours later and said they would then roll out their proposal next week for all to see.

Thats pretty much the timeline on this thing and where we are right now.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Does it? If you can afford a ticket to the game and $10 beers, you can afford a $3 transit ticket. I don't get why the Flames would make such a frivolous request.

Works fabulously in any metro area that does it. People will take transit instead of driving, if it's free.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

More rumored demands by CSEC:

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36276378/

So, apparently more cash, no property taxes or rent, AND trips to games and cops to patrol arena subsidized by taxpayers? Can I send a gas receipt into the City for reimbursement with a ticket stub? SIGN THIS DEAL.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Free transit for ticket-holders is actually a small thing that makes a lot of sense for all parties.

Except it costs the city millions of dollars a year. No reason to make it free.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Free transit for ticket-holders is actually a small thing that makes a lot of sense for all parties.

It's a lot of lost revenue - $3 each way(or whatever bus tickets are now) x 2 tickets to and from the game x however many thousands of people take transit

Let's take a really wild guess and say 6k people take the train, that's 36k per game, and 41 games a year(not including preseason or playoffs) that's 1.5~M less Calgary transit takes in a year

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

King may be the messenger for the owners, but he is a seriously horrible presenter.

I want the Flames to stay in Calgary, so it makes me cringe to hear / read what King says in these engagements.

Especially this rambling line: "Why don't we all agree on what payback is, is it social, is it cultural, is it financial..."

Well gee Ken, we voted and we all agree the payback is social and cultural. So we'll give you a parade and a yearly festival and you'll be good with that, right? He's been watching too many late night reruns of Wall Street.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Works fabulously in any metro area that does it. People will take transit instead of driving, if it's free.

I'd rather see them charge $5 extra for parking to encourage people to take transit.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

I'd rather see them charge $5 extra for parking to encourage people to take transit.

Fair enough. Just saying

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Free transit for ticket-holders is actually a small thing that makes a lot of sense for all parties.

How about then free transit to stamps games, free transit to the CPO, free transit to globalfest, free transit to roughnecks, free transit to the hitmen, free transit to Stampede, free transit to one yellow rabbit, free transit...

[stone hands]

Free transit to work downtown

[Makarov]

Haha, ok, ok, maybe it isn't such a good idea. Just thought it might encourage more people to take transit to games, reduce need for expensive underground parking, etc.

[EldrickOnIce]

Timberwolves are a team who offers free rides
From transit authority

For instance, Metro Transit’s partnership with the Minnesota Timberwolves offers fans with game-day tickets free rides on buses and trains before and after games. In exchange, Metro Transit receives a valuable advertising package that promotes public transportation to fans before they get to the arena and also during games at Target Center.

The free rides are generally redeemable with a downloadable pass that is shown to bus drivers or Transit Police officers. We ask customers to answer a couple of questions before they download their pass. Last year, about 80 percent of those downloading passes said they had never tried transit or had only used it occasionally