Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I doubt it. I get the impression that the higher-ups in the Flames organization are friends first, business partners second. I bet King golfs and has a pint with them. Kind of like a close-knit clique.

King is in his position because the owners like him and because he takes the bullets for them. He is their chosen puppet. Much in the same way the NHL owners like Bettman.

...or the NFL with Roger Godell.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by DJones

People here are oddly obsessed with American politics haha

How can you not be? The most powerful country in the world elected a racist moron and their empire looks to be on the inevitable decline. It's a train wreck we can't stop watching.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure commit to building an arena and you might get on the list.

Otherwise, your not on a relocation list.

It'll never get to that point. Rogers effectively guaranteed the security of the Canadian teams when they ponied up $5.2 billion over twelve years for the Canadian TV rights.

You don't have to go back very far, just to last year, to see just how devastating it is for Rogers' business model when no Canadian teams were in the playoffs. So we're to believe Sportsnet is going to sit idly by and allow one of its Canadian markets (which has sold out every game for thirteen years) to move to Houston or KC or Seattle?

No, the only way the Flames move is if they move within Canada. These these owners going to put up with Quebec politics and taxes? They can't deal with Nenshi.

Are we to believe they'd willingly stick themselves in a market where Clay Riddell has to explain to the press why he doesn't speak French?

No. The Flames are here to stay. This isn't the NFL.

[JackJack]

What amazes me is the contrast between the GM and CEO.

1) Treliving - one of the top 5 GM's in the NHL. Great temperament and disposition, always seemingly in control, and in tune with his surroundings and the City.
2) Ken King - absolutely tone deaf.

[TheKurgan]

I thought for an Winter Olympics bid we needed to have 2 Arenas?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Also firing King now is a non-starter from a negotiating point of view. They are between a rock. Surely they can't be blind to fact that he is damaging their cause.

The PA had to fire Goodenow before they could get a final deal done in 05, didn't they? I could be misremembering this - maybe it was just Saskins and Daly had to do all the final negotiating because Bob and Gary couldn't be in a room together without trying to Red Wedding each other.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I thought for an Winter Olympics bid we needed to have 2 Arenas?

In that case, Saddledome demolition would liekly be delayed.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Okay, I'll bite. Their jobs depend on the Flames. What do you expect? Rob Kerr has been the poster boy for this new arena and the biggest cheerleader on the Flames side.

Kerr also has an established history of being very keen on sports facilities - and believing that sports is a big part of our cultural fabric.
It is a massive assumption to think that any of his opinions are based on job security when none of his viewpoints are inconsistent with how he has felt in the past.
Maybe the guy just thinks a rink needs to get done.

[ToraToraTora]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The PA had to fire Goodenow before they could get a final deal done in 05, didn't they? I could be misremembering this - maybe it was just Saskins and Daly had to do all the final negotiating because Bob and Gary couldn't be in a room together without trying to Red Wedding each other.

He was "asked" to step down 2 weeks later.

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Kerr also has an established history of being very keen on sports facilities - and believing that sports is a big part of our cultural fabric.
It is a massive assumption to think that any of his opinions are based on job security when none of his viewpoints are inconsistent with how he has felt in the past.
Maybe the guy just thinks a rink needs to get done.

For sure, but I think his views/position on the subject gets reinforced because of his employer. My opinion of course.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Kerr also has an established history of being very keen on sports facilities - and believing that sports is a big part of our cultural fabric.
It is a massive assumption to think that any of his opinions are based on job security when none of his viewpoints are inconsistent with how he has felt in the past.
Maybe the guy just thinks a rink needs to get done.

Exactly. He has come out many times in his support for a field house.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Also firing King now is a non-starter from a negotiating point of view. They are between a rock. Surely they can't be blind to fact that he is damaging their cause.

I just don't buy it.

If they didn't like the message but liked what else he brought they would trot out a different messenger.

If they didn't like the message and didn't like what else he brought, they would can him.

Who on Earth stays in their job prominently in the public eye representing their bosses if their bosses think they are doing a bad job.

Even Spicer was canned.

It isn't king that sucks here, it is the proposal. He's not driving the boat on hundreds of millions in liability. It is impossible to defend the ownership position on this without looking like Katz looked in Edmonton.

If the owners were concerned about how they would appear asking for the Edmonton deal they should have considered how Katz looked getting off the plane in Seattle with Gretz.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because the City would have a building sitting there, with no tenant and no revenue?

If you are an owner and you have a commodity that people want, are you not going to try and squeeze every bit of value out of it? If Calgary and Quebec City are both available, are you not going to use those to negotiate? If Seattle has a team, are you not going to approach Portland, and try and get some interest out of them? You're going to do everything in your power to make sure that you get the absolute best deal for the money you are about to spend. We know Calgary will support a team, but what other earning opportunities are there? The other sites might offer sweeteners that make it worth your while, or you can use to drive the lease down.

This is completely disingenuous. You can't honestly say that Quebec City or Portland are even in the realm of competing with Calgary as a home for an NHL team. QC has a population less than half that of Calgary, not to mention the lack of corporate support. Portland is completely unproven and is thus far irrelevant as a hockey market. Their WHL team draws well, but still lower than Calgary which already has an NHL team in town.

Even if those markets were legitimately competitive with Calgary though, it's a PR disaster to start bringing up relocation. We've seen with King and Bettman's thinly veiled threats this week how well that went over. Their top priority should be winning over Calgarians to get the best possible deal in this city, and so far they are failing miserably.

[Corral]

The point about the Rogers TV contract is something i hadn't considered here .... and it is a good one. Indeed it seems fair to say that if the Flames owners are going to reap the profits from that contract, they have to play by the rules set by the very Canadian municipalities in which they reside.

So let us know when you are ready to talk about shovels hitting the ground in Victoria Park on your dime. Otherwise, enjoy the Dome.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by New Era

Really? How so? Because calling a loan, a loan, is bizarre? Try and hide thr true meaning in flowery language or legal mumbo jumbo, when it is distilled down to its base meaning it is what it is. Giving someone money on the condition of paying it back in full, with or without interest, is called a... ?

Mortgage?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Young_Guns]

Ken King really irritates me. The way he kept smirking in the presser..

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by TopChed

Their top priority should be winning over Calgarians to get the best possible deal in this city, and so far they are failing miserably.

that should not be their top priority by any means.

it doesn't matter what calgarians think. it's proven they'll keep going to games no matter what, and will be more likely to do so in a new arena.

all that matters is the negotiation between the city and the team, winning over the populace won't get them a better deal with city council.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

that should not be their top priority by any means.

it doesn't matter what calgarians think. it's proven they'll keep going to games no matter what, and will be more likely to do so in a new arena.

all that matters is the negotiation between the city and the team, winning over the populace won't get them a better deal with city council.

You don't think the popular opinion influences the city councilors? Especially with them timing this public debate right before a municipal election? If Calgarians were completely on the side of the Flames, they would have much more leverage to work with in their negotiations. As it stands, there isn't a lot they can work with.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

all that matters is the negotiation between the city and the team, winning over the populace won't get them a better deal with city council.

Won't it? Aren't Calgarians the ones who periodically elect those very members of City Council? I mean, that's really the only skin in the game for City Council (apart from a sense of civic duty).

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

Ken King really irritates me. The way he kept smirking in the presser..

He really thinks he's a king and not that King is just a family name.