Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

This is not a scenario we will need to worry about.

The Flames aren't going anywhere.

The Atlanta Thrashers, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams, Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos etc. say hi.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If I was a private developer I would be hammering the city hall phone lines trying to get the same deal the city has on the table to the flames.

Has this happened in Edmonton? If not why not? Is it because "private development" in Edmonton just isn't a thing to begin with?

[calgaryblood]

Fan 960 guys are so so biased. "Wait and see", yeah one side has given their side and thats all you need to see to know the city is in the right here.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's a variable for sure, but an unknown one.

Forbes has the Flames value going down by 6% between 2015 and 2016 which says a lot given the market. You're right that a new building helps the value, but when the cost is already 50% more than the team's value it's still a pretty ominous investment.

That and sports in general almost seems to be on the edge of a cliff doesn't it?

streaming coming in tv going out, less people at NFL openers last week, attendance down last year. Starting to wonder if we may see a huge roll back coming in the whole industry.

Either way the days of increasing franchise value may be on the outs.

Sort of. You can always cut player Salaries amist falling revenues should they occur. SPorts wise there is no real difference between a 50 million cap and a 70 million cap so the value of the franchises depends on crushing Unions.

I think the next round of Rights deals will set the market going forward and Calgary should not build a new arena until the affects of Facebook and Twitter getting into lives sports. Sports is one of the few things that still matter live. I think Football has just maximized itself over the last 10 years so a fall back their is expected.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Would thank, but out of thanks for the day already.

I hit him up for you.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's a variable for sure, but an unknown one.

Forbes has the Flames value going down by 6% between 2015 and 2016 which says a lot given the market. You're right that a new building helps the value, but when the cost is already 50% more than the team's value it's still a pretty ominous investment.

That and sports in general almost seems to be on the edge of a cliff doesn't it?

streaming coming in tv going out, less people at NFL openers last week, attendance down last year. Starting to wonder if we may see a huge roll back coming in the whole industry.

Either way the days of increasing franchise value may be on the outs.

People aren't as interested in going to live sporting events any more, the NHL and NBA and the other pro sports have become too cost prohibitive to the average person.

I think the next big revenue for major sports team is around digital, bigger TV deals, pay for services etc, and the people that you attract to live games are the people that can afford luxury boxes or paying several thousand dollars for season tickets and concessions and parking.

Frankly at some point NHL teams will probably look at converting a huge chunk of their seats to luxury boxes.

These owners aren't stupid they're not after the fans that go to 10 or 15 games a year and sit in the cheap seats and scrimp on food and beer. They want the whales that will spend a couple of hundred thousand just to buy a box and then demand catering and concerts and all of the other things that new buildings can provide.

Instead of 18,000 fans at a game, we'll get 7 or 8 thousand at the games buying the new building experience.

[Gaskal]

Lol reading the word for word transcript makes KK's response seem even more rambling and hilarious.

Lucas Meyer @meyer_lucas - 8m

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Except King cant move the team...it isnt his. Yet everyone sees him as the bad guy. He is doing that part of his job quite well.

Which goes to KC's other point that today was predictable in that he went out to take bullets from the press but in doing so, he flipped the news cycle and has set it up to own it by delaying releasing the Flames proposal til next week.

I doubt it's more than a tiny fraction of people who don't understand that KK is repressenting Edwards and the other owners. You can interchange the words Ken King, Murray Edwards and CSEC in 90% of the posts in this thread without changing the poster's meaning.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ynwa03

What makes you say that. Calgary is not a bad market. In fact, there are a number of terrible hockey markets that have a team, who's owners would stand to make (more) money in Calgary. Why would the city need to bend over backwards for them.

Because a smart owner is going to be looking for a sweetheart deal? When you go an buy a car are you stumbling all over yourself to pay over sticker, just because? Any team coming in will be looking to pay the least amount they can on a lease, and they will flaunt the Edmonton Oilers lease of $3.5M a season in the face of the city. A team on the market will likely have a few suitors and choices to make. I don't think the City want to get to this point.

Another thing to consider, the NHL may not even approve a team moving to Calgary, even with a new arena. Could depend greatly on where the team is coming from and how it could possibly affect divisional alignment. A move of a team could require another team changing divisions, and I would think that would require approval by that team as well. There are lots of moving pieces in a new team going into a market. It isn't as cut and dried an you might think. If there are two cities competing for a team, preference may be given to the one in the better geographical location for the league. It wouldn't be the first time they have made a decision based on geography.

[scotty2hotty]

Why do the Flames need a week before they can share their proposal?

Obviously need to make a few 'modifications' from the official version in order to make it more palatable for the masses.

[Roughneck]

Repost

*Beaten by Gaskal*

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The Atlanta Thrashers, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams, Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos etc. say hi.

St Louis is an excellent warning. They are still paying for the stadium they build the rams 20 years ago and they moved anyways. I believe the Grizzlies were playing in a new building when they moved.

The Thrashers also had a new building to start their existence. So a new building does not ensure your team stays.

[calgaryblood]

^^ New Era

Being a billionaire and running a business is not the same as buying a car. Stop with the wild comparisons.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because a smart owner is going to be looking for a sweetheart deal? When you go an buy a car are you stumbling all over yourself to pay over sticker, just because? Any team coming in will be looking to pay the least amount they can on a lease, and they will flaunt the Edmonton Oilers lease of $3.5M a season in the face of the city. A team on the market will likely have a few suitors and choices to make. I don't think the City want to get to this point.

Another thing to consider, the NHL may not even approve a team moving to Calgary, even with a new arena. Could depend greatly on where the team is coming from and how it could possibly affect divisional alignment. A move of a team could require another team changing divisions, and I would think that would require approval by that team as well. There are lots of moving pieces in a new team going into a market. It isn't as cut and dried an you might think. If there are two cities competing for a team, preference may be given to the one in the better geographical location for the league. It wouldn't be the first time they have made a decision based on geography.

The response would be simple

We should move the Coyotes to Calgary

Sorry Calgary, Kansas City has a really nice building

We should move the Islanders to Calgary

Sorry Calgary Houston has a great building and they're a major TV hub.

But Once you get a new Arena in place, we'll return your phone calls.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Lol reading the word for word transcript makes KK's response seem even more rambling and hilarious.

KK, you're the piece of work.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Why do the Flames need a week before they can share their proposal?

Obviously need to make a few 'modifications' from the official version in order to make it more presentable for the masses.

Close.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If I was a private developer I would be hammering the city hall phone lines trying to get the same deal the city has on the table to the flames.

I thought Nenshi addressed this.

there is a clause for professional sports teams that allows them to be treated differently in regards to paying taxes that does not apply to all other industries from what i recall he said.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The Atlanta Thrashers, San Diego Chargers, Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams, Vancouver Grizzlies, Montreal Expos etc. say hi.

This list of teams does not increase my level of concern that the Flames are a threat to leave Calgary.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

People aren't as interested in going to live sporting events any more, the NHL and NBA and the other pro sports have become too cost prohibitive to the average person.

I think the next big revenue for major sports team is around digital, bigger TV deals, pay for services etc, and the people that you attract to live games are the people that can afford luxury boxes or paying several thousand dollars for season tickets and concessions and parking.

Frankly at some point NHL teams will probably look at converting a huge chunk of their seats to luxury boxes.

These owners aren't stupid they're not after the fans that go to 10 or 15 games a year and sit in the cheap seats and scrimp on food and beer. They want the whales that will spend a couple of hundred thousand just to buy a box and then demand catering and concerts and all of the other things that new buildings can provide.

Instead of 18,000 fans at a game, we'll get 7 or 8 thousand at the games buying the new building experience.

you're totally correct.

I don't know why hockey needs tv deals at all.
82 games a year. keep about 10-15 games on regular tv or available to stream for "free" to whet the appetite of the market. then make the majority of games pay-per-view.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because a smart owner is going to be looking for a sweetheart deal? When you go an buy a car are you stumbling all over yourself to pay over sticker, just because? Any team coming in will be looking to pay the least amount they can on a lease, and they will flaunt the Edmonton Oilers lease of $3.5M a season in the face of the city. A team on the market will likely have a few suitors and choices to make. I don't think the City want to get to this point.

Another thing to consider, the NHL may not even approve a team moving to Calgary, even with a new arena. Could depend greatly on where the team is coming from and how it could possibly affect divisional alignment. A move of a team could require another team changing divisions, and I would think that would require approval by that team as well. There are lots of moving pieces in a new team going into a market. It isn't as cut and dried an you might think. If there are two cities competing for a team, preference may be given to the one in the better geographical location for the league. It wouldn't be the first time they have made a decision based on geography.

Why would the NHL reject moving a team to Calgary, a Canadian city with north of a million inhabitants who has shown to be crazy about their hockey team even though they have been mediocre at best for the last 30 years. Especially with the condition you mentioned about there being a new rink