[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[s_procee]

That is a tough sell, people are already paying high taxes

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by New Era

Thanks for the information. It does present a much better picture than has been promoted by either side in the argument. For anyone else interested here is the plan that Barnes is referring to.

http://www.calgary.ca/CS/CPB/Documen...ation_plan.pdf

It is closer to Buckwood than LA Live, which I think it better for Calgary and much cooler. I don't think current state is anywhere near where this plan is promoting, even after a decade. It is still decades away from implementation, regardless of when an arena goes in. There is so much work to be done, and no cash to do it. While this is a much better vision, what do you think the likelihood of this happening is in the next 20 years? Where is the money coming for this? Or are the relying on "build it and they will come" type strategy with private development?

AFAIK CRL money is borrowed and allocated by the City to the CMLC. The CMLC sells the upgraded land to developers and the City repays the loan on the borrowed funds from the new property taxes collected.

An arena anchor helps this immensely. 17th ave connected to 4th st, expanded BMO Centre, an arena, and entertainment venues directly around the arena fills out the area nicely. The eastern portion like the Remington lands, bus barns etc, yah. Not for awhile but, a realization of essentially what was to be the Stampede's Stampede trail vision, only a modern version of it with an arena would be my ideal solution.

In the East Village, CMLC spent $357 million on infrastructure and has attracted $2.7 billion in development.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root;

long post

But would the city even offer his deal if they had to own the building? Would the flames accept it if they had to pay property tax?

Your post offers a simplified breakdown but the details could be the sticking point.

[killer_carlson]

Not sure if this was posted in the thread or not:

Flames asked City to pay 52% as per Ken King

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...-its-very-fair

King also says the city’s proposal — one-third each from the Flames, the city and a ticket surcharge — “means that we actually pay three-thirds. Calgary Sports and Entertainment would ultimately pay the whole thing.”

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But would the city even offer his deal if they had to own the building? Would the flames accept it if they had to pay property tax?

Your post offers a simplified breakdown but the details could be the sticking point.

Yes, obviously the details matter. I literally said in the first line that it was a 'starting point' to understanding what we're talking about. Some context.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Sold!
(I live in Cochrane suckas!)

Feels like its time to put those toll booths in. Live in Cochrane, Airdrie or Okotoks and you are driving into Calgary to work? Pay up suckers!

[Parallex]

King also says the city’s proposal — one-third each from the Flames, the city and a ticket surcharge — “means that we actually pay three-thirds. Calgary Sports and Entertainment would ultimately pay the whole thing.”

So in Ken King world the City has to take a loss, has to by design have a net negative balance sheet on the project to be considered to have contributed at all?

[Enoch Root]

The final deal will not have the city paying over 50%, that's not happening.

I also doubt that it will have them getting everything paid back and ultimately paying nothing. I think the deal is somewhere in the middle of those two goalposts.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Feels like its time to put those toll booths in. Live in Cochrane, Airdrie or Okotoks and you are driving into Calgary to work? Pay up suckers!

Yeah you Calgarians get a pretty good deal jamming up our doctors offices, and municipal services like swim lessons to the point where locals can't get in them. Besides my lunch dollars are spent in Calgary, I wouldn't get too on your high horse trash panda.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Not sure if this was posted in the thread or not:



Flames asked City to pay 52% as per Ken King



http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...-its-very-fair

Oh boy, the Flames come out looking bad here. If their intent was to make Nenshi and/or city council look bad, they are not succeeding.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I also doubt that it will have them getting everything paid back

I don't see why anyone would want to make a business deal where they will inherently take a loss and be left with a white elephant at the end. I mean not all business deals work out and sometimes you have to take a loss but those at least had a chance of turning a profit.

If the City puts in $$ it should at least get revenue streams that project to be equal to it's investment. If business isn't as good as the Flames reasonably project it to be over that period then sure the City can take a haircut alongside the Flames but a deal where the City has a zero percent chance of recouping it's money? That deal should not be signed.

[s_procee]

Originally Posted by ah123

Oh boy, the Flames come out looking bad here. If their intent was to make Nenshi and/or city council look bad, they are not succeeding.

Look at Edmonton a year after the arena is finished, there are no hard feelings for what was said in negotiations....i think

[ah123]

Originally Posted by s_procee

Look at Edmonton a year after the arena is finished, there are no hard feelings for what was said in negotiations....i think

IIRC the economic climate was different when Edmonton and the Oilers tangled. People are still hurting in Calgary, and to want taxpayers to foot a large part of the bill is a bad PR move IMHO

[s_procee]

Originally Posted by ah123

IIRC the economic climate was different when Edmonton and the Oilers tangled. People are still hurting in Calgary, and to want taxpayers to foot a large part of the bill is a bad PR move IMHO

I didn't mean the economic climate, I meant that they were going at it and the execs went to look at other arenas.

the gloves were off during negotiations but once its done those memories fade

[Reggie Dunlop]

Where does CSEC think about building the Fieldhouse first? What's the timetable?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Not sure if this was posted in the thread or not:

Flames asked City to pay 52% as per Ken King

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...-its-very-fair

If true, the Flames look like fools. I'll be waiting for the release of docs to support this. The rumor, than neither side pushed back on the day of the breakdown, was the 1/3 scenario, with the city attaching conditions to a payback. Nenshi did not deny this when he spoke to the media, so for this completely contradictory story to come out seems strange. Not saying it isn't true, just have to see something that supports it, especially based on the comments from the council members earlier today. Ken King needs to fall on his sword regardless of the situation, so maybe this makes that happen.

[Par]

Originally Posted by ah123

IIRC the economic climate was different when Edmonton and the Oilers tangled. People are still hurting in Calgary, and to want taxpayers to foot a large part of the bill is a bad PR move IMHO

If the Flames were smart they would wait 2-3 years before going after a arena(the Saddledome can last for 2-3 years) and in 2-3 years, the economy will improve and it will be easier to get public funding for the arena.

With all the job cuts happening, people having to fight tooth and nail, just to survive, it is very selfish of the Flames to ask for pubic funding right now.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Par

If the Flames were smart they would wait 2-3 years before going after a arena

If the Flames were smart they would have gotten this done when oil was at $100.00 a barrel and folk were diving into Scrooge McDuck money pools.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by s_procee

That is a tough sell, people are already paying high taxes

I think most of us can afford an extra 10/20 bucks a month

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

If true, the Flames look like fools. I'll be waiting for the release of docs to support this. The rumor, than neither side pushed back on the day of the breakdown, was the 1/3 scenario, with the city attaching conditions to a payback. Nenshi did not deny this when he spoke to the media, so for this completely contradictory story to come out seems strange. Not saying it isn't true, just have to see something that supports it, especially based on the comments from the council members earlier today. Ken King needs to fall on his sword regardless of the situation, so maybe this makes that happen.

Agreed.

If this is truly their final offer and the city would end up on the hook for over half of the cost with no way to recoup monies paid out or put up front, it is a non-starter for everyone except the CSEC. Ridiculous.

I really hope this isn't the case because it doesn't seem like the CSEC is serious, which would lead me to believe that they plan on heading elsewhere...which i really dont believe is the case at all.