[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Which sucks for concerts because the rigging setup a lot of large shows use needs to be hung from the ceiling and the Saddledome cannot support that.

Not sure how many times that needs to be reiterated. Calgary misses on our big shows that bring people from out of town, bring business to hotels/restaurants because the Saddledome setup cannot support their speaker/lighting setups without massive modifications. Just because Garth Brooks eventually decided to bring a modified setup does not mean that typically happens.

If Calgary wants to be a premier city that brings in big name rock, pop, country concerts then yes, we need a new arena ASAP. The Flames are not the only reason a new building is needed. So yes a new arena is needed if Calgary wants to be a premier destination for concerts. These concerts bring people from out of town to stay in hotels, eat at restaurants. The bands themselves and their crews also stay in hotels and eat st restaurants. Some people do not seem to be considering this aspect of a new arena.

Can the city keep all the revenues from all these amazing concerts in the new arena?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by JFK

You can't just buy an existing NHL team and relocate it. The sale and relocation still have to be approved by the NHL board of governors. Something that won't happen.

The NHL will see it this way. Small market Canadian team with a 35 year old decrepit arena that cannot host a proper event, or new American market team with brand new arena that opens up the Northwest US market and new TV deals.

Tough decision.

People are highly overestimating Calgary's value to the NHL without a proper arena.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Which sucks for concerts because the rigging setup a lot of large shows use needs to be hung from the ceiling and the Saddledome cannot support that.

Not sure how many times that needs to be reiterated. Calgary misses on our big shows that bring people from out of town, bring business to hotels/restaurants because the Saddledome setup cannot support their speaker/lighting setups without massive modifications. Just because Garth Brooks eventually decided to bring a modified setup does not mean that typically happens.

If Calgary wants to be a premier city that brings in big name rock, pop, country concerts then yes, we need a new arena ASAP. The Flames are not the only reason a new building is needed. So yes a new arena is needed if Calgary wants to be a premier destination for concerts. These concerts bring people from out of town to stay in hotels, eat at restaurants. The bands themselves and their crews also stay in hotels and eat at restaurants. Some people do not seem to be considering this aspect of a new arena.

Personally I've travelled in the past to Tacoma and Vancouver to see shows from bands that skipped Calgary. We could have the reverse. People travelling from Sask, BC, rural AB to come see major shows. It brings in tourism dollars no question.

How much? What's the dollar figure? What are these people spending on restaurants and hotels?

Figures not anecdotes. What's the economic impact of a major concert in a major city.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The NHL will see it this way. Small market Canadian team with a 35 year old decrepit arena that cannot host a proper event, or new American market team with brand new arena that opens up the Northwest US market and new TV deals.
Tough decision.
People are highly overestimating Calgary's value to the NHL without a proper arena.

Think so? Doubtful.
Calgary is one of it's most consistent, loyal and reliable fan bases. They know the money this franchise brings in and they can count on it. Leave the successful team alone and get over the arena hurdle.

The board of governors aren't going to ignore the 500 million dollar expansion fee Seattle would have to pay because Calgary can't get it's arena done in a timely manor. It's ludicrous to think otherwise. Sorry, but it really is.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JFK

They wouldn't block a sale, they'd block a move. Pay attention bro.

Any sale will have the conditions agreed to long before it gets to the BoG. Pay attention bro.

For all those reasons (ignoring your dramatics) yes and the fact the BOG wants to keep Seattle open for huge potential expansion dollars.

Dramatics? Asking you questions you refuse to answer is dramatics? Sure thing bro.

Seattle will be a relocation site. During the last round of expansion talks Seattle showed interest, but the group elected to not submit the $10M application fee. Coupled with the cost of the renovation of the building, and the primary target of a NBA team, the NHL team will have to be from some team experiencing problems.

I also wouldn't be betting on your bro Brett Wilson riding to the rescue anytime soon. Wilson has been hyper critical of Nenshi and city council, so I doubt he has the appetite to get involved with them in trying to negotiate an arena deal, not after the current owners gained little traction.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by New Era

Am I missing something? Has another ownership group stepped forward offering to buy the Flames and then operate in Calgary without a NHL building? I'm asking because I haven't heard of anyone.

I do think that the hope of someone stepping up to buy the Flames to keep them in Calgary without a new arena deal is unreasonable. If the current group, which is well funded and very patient, can't make this work it is unlikely that someone else is going to jump on their white charger and be the shining knight that saves the day. This ownership group washes its hands of this team, and this team is headed elsewhere. If Bettman has been to town (twice) on ownership's behalf, the league is already in their corner and would likely grant them permission to do as they see fit.

Am I missing something? Have the Flames announced they are for sale? So why would there be this ownership group who is going to magically form and step up right now? Until 2 days ago, this wasn't even considered a real issue, so it is pretty unfair of you to be making these sorts of assumptions that these people should already be publicly out.

The NHL has blocked deals for higher dollar value sales which would involve relocation in other cities. A local Calgary group doesn't need to worry about being outbid as much as they need to worry about being comparable.

The ownership group in Calgary has been a very closed circle for a long time. There have been others in this city who've tried to join the club and they've been shut out.

I mean take it for what it is worth, but I do know of some people in Calgary who would be extremely interested becoming part of the ownership group at CESC at this current time. If 10-20% of CESC came available right now, there would probably be some buyers. I believe Brett Wilson's name was also mentioned by some other posters.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by edslunch

You would think, but a young team on the verge of greatness would be a great way to fill a new arena. I have to believe Calgary would be outbid

NHL has blocked sales that involve relocation in the past, even at higher dollar values. They've generally always opted for local ownership over relocation.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Makarov

That simply isn't true any longer (if it ever was).

You think so? I bet if the Flames win the Cup you get 500,000+ people come to the parade.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except the Flames would be moving to Seattle, not the Flames ownership group. If the Flames leave Calgary it will be through a sale. The Flames owners will have said enough is enough and wash their hands of the hockey team. They will happily take their money and run if they no longer have interest in the venture or think it provides no value to them. If the Flames move to Seattle it is because they were sold and they become property of the group that owns the Seattle arena.

Originally Posted by New Era

And why is that? Why would the BoG block the sale of the Calgary Flames? Is it because Calgary is such a huge market? Is it because Calgary is such a major metropolitan area? Is it because Calgary is such a large media market? Is it because Calgary is such a major economic market? Other than being Canadian (a strike to most owners) and being in hockey country, what makes Calgary a market that the BoG would trip all over themselves blocking a sale? This is a team that has come to an impasse in getting a new building constructed. The viability of the team is now in question. Why would the BoG stand in the way of the owners following though on their desire to sell the team?

Rogers 5.2 billion dollar TV deal.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by New Era

Any sale will have the conditions agreed to long before it gets to the BoG. Pay attention bro.

Yes, I know. They will be blocked.

Dramatics? Asking you questions you refuse to answer is dramatics? Sure thing bro.

Seattle will be a relocation site. During the last round of expansion talks Seattle showed interest, but the group elected to not submit the $10M application fee. Coupled with the cost of the renovation of the building, and the primary target of a NBA team, the NHL team will have to be from some team experiencing problems.

I also wouldn't be betting on your bro Brett Wilson riding to the rescue anytime soon. Wilson has been hyper critical of Nenshi and city council, so I doubt he has the appetite to get involved with them in trying to negotiate an arena deal, not after the current owners gained little traction.

Did I avoid your questions, or did I say yes? Don't get all pissy and go on your typical New Era wall of text unreadable posts because you missed where I said yes.

Seattle might be a relocation site but it would be a failing franchise, not a overwhelmingly successful one; arena issue or not.

Brett Wilson was one example, he tried to buy into the group into the past and I know there are plenty of others who've tried to get into Flames ownership. It really wouldn't be a problem.

All that being said this is all posturing and I'm shocked some are falling for it hook line and sinker. There has been zero indication any of the Flames owners are looking to sell. Even if one billionaire is out, that doesn't mean all are.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

You think so? I bet if the Flames win the Cup you get 500,000+ people come to the parade.

And? Don't see how that relates to how the Flames are not "Calgary".

Calgary is a major city with tons to offer, Calgary isn't just the "Flames".

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

I got roasted for the the last time that I posted this because most members of CP still worship at the altar of the almighty "CAPITALIST".

But...

Murray Edwards moved from Alberta to England to avoid paying his due taxes to Canada and Alberta and Calgary. And now people are surprised that he is 'taking his ball and going home' when the city won't give him millions in free taxpayer money. Shocking. This guy not only feels that he should not have to pay taxes, but he also feels that the gullible poor idiots who still actually pay taxes should give all that money to him and his private enterprise to help him to make more money.

Anyway... keep arguing for his chosen political side because you love the Flames...

"It is all well and good for children and acid freaks to still believe in Santa Claus — but it is still a profoundly morbid day for us working professionals". H.S.T.

First of all, this has nothing to do with an arena.

Second of all, I seriously don't understand why people are hating on Edwards for moving. Some other ignorant poster was banging this same drum earlier too and makes no sense. Just because the guy is rich he's not allowed to move anywhere? We need to put him under house arrest to make sure he stays a citizen?

Edwards made his money here, and paid taxes on all of it. His multi billion dollar companies are based here, and pay corporate taxes, land use fees, and royalties. His tens of thousands of employees live here and pay city, provincial and federal taxes. But after all that, god forbid the guy should want to move to a world class city after he gets divorced and his house floods out.

If that guy moving pisses you off, a hypothetical Canadian student who soaks up schooling here and then moves to another country to start working must drive you into a murderous rage. That is unless you're just irrationally hating on someone for being rich, which I suspect is your actual motive.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JFK

How much? What's the dollar figure? What are these people spending on restaurants and hotels?

Figures not anecdotes. What's the economic impact of a major concert in a major city.

In 2015, Tampa hosted a Taylor Swift concert and estimated the in house value was $6.2M. That is without revenues beyond the confines of Raymond James Stadium.

Austin developed SXSW so they could make money off people coming to the event. In 2013 the city saw $218M pumped into the local economy. There is a reason why municipalities are behind big concert events and festivals. They have big spinoff value to the economy.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

And? Don't see how that relates to how the Flames are not "Calgary".

Calgary is a major city with tons to offer, Calgary isn't just the "Flames".

To be fair, I think the original quote is that the Flames are Calgary. Which to me says that if they moved, they are no longer the Flames with the associated history etc.

I would certainly agree that Calgary is not the Flames. It is much, much more than that. Even cities like regina and Green Bay are defined by more than just their sports teams. That would be kind of sad really.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by JFK

How much? What's the dollar figure? What are these people spending on restaurants and hotels?

Figures not anecdotes. What's the economic impact of a major concert in a major city.

How would a concert that came to town compare with the juno awards from several years ago?
Heres what the study said on that

This research found that the Juno Awards had a significant economic impact on Calgary’s metropolitan area and the rest of Alberta: “the economic impact generated a significant increase in the local and provincial GDP, increased employment, and increased tax revenues for all three levels of government.”
• Total economic impact of $11.3 million benefiting Calgary and Alberta (Calgary: $7.9 million; rest of Alberta: $3.4 million);
• An estimated $5 million in direct expenditures by out-of-town visitors and the Juno Award organizers, the Canadian Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences (CARAS);
• $5.3 million impact on Alberta’s GDP (Calgary: $3.5 million; the rest of Alberta: $1.8 million);
• Strong impact on employment, estimated at $3.1 million and 82 full-time job equivalents (FTEs) (Calgary: $2.4 million and 68 FTEs; rest of Alberta: $0.7 million and 14 FTEs);
• $1.7 million in tax revenue (municipal: $275,333; provincial: $490,772; federal $982, 535)

[Table 5]

Sounds like we need to forget about the hockey arena, let's build a kick-ass concert hall!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The NHL will see it this way. Small market Canadian team with a 35 year old decrepit arena that cannot host a proper event, or new American market team with brand new arena that opens up the Northwest US market and new TV deals.

Tough decision.

People are highly overestimating Calgary's value to the NHL without a proper arena.

Check the value of that Canadian TV deal.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by New Era

In 2015, Tampa hosted a Taylor Swift concert and estimated the in house value was $6.2M.

And...

the concert brought in about $6.2 million and Taylor Swift kept over $4 million of it,

Did you think I wouldn't ready your link?

Also.

That is without revenues beyond the confines of Raymond James Stadium.

Maybe I wasn't clear.. but I was asking specifically what the dollar amount OUTSIDE the arena would be. What's the economic impact for the city not for the owners of the arena.

Austin developed SXSW so they could make money off people coming to the event. In 2013 the city saw $218M pumped into the local economy. There is a reason why municipalities are behind big concert events and festivals. They have big spinoff value to the economy.

Festivals are another beast altogether. SXSW is amazing, and takes places at different events all over the city, not just one big arena. Poor example.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

Rogers 5.2 billion dollar TV deal.

And... ? Is there a clause in there that prevents a Canadian team from relocating? Isn't that contract a national contract, which means its predominantly for Leafs rights? Would the Flames or Jets or Senators or Canucks or Oilers ceasing to exist change that contract in any way (taking away the McJesus factor)?

[Flash Walken]

You can't have it both ways.

How is it possible for the flames to be a top 10 revenue generator in a decrepit old building with basically zero team success for a generation? How does a team in Seattle duplicate that success if the team doesn't even own the building they share with another franchise from another league?