[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

City council has voted to release the arena negotiation discussion.

Lucas Meyer @meyer_lucas
BREAKING: Calgary City Council votes 8-4 to release arena negotiation discussions

The 4 nay votes would be?

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Not that there is any logic to it, but I suspect this might be settled with some Provincial/Federal money. Still taxpayer, but call it "infrastructure" money and spread the pain, it usually gets more traction.

My guess is that the city's going to push for an Olympics bid (yech) so they can do exactly that.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Up front costs" means essentially a loan to the Flames. So they were asking for the Flames to ultimately bear 100% (including the "ticket tax"). That's obvioulsy a position many here advocate. But IMO it's kind of unrealistic and perhaps not economically feasible for the Flames.

If I'm understanding the article correctly, I think it is important to keep in mind that just because the Flames would ultimately bear the full cost, getting a $200m loan that gets paid back over 30 years is a pretty sweet deal, especially if the source of that money is property tax that by rights, the Flames should have to pay anyway. I would also presume it would be at a pretty sweet interest rate.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Are you? What city this size doesn't have a large stadium for such events?

Stampede gonna stop booking top acts when the dome collapses or because its too expensive to maintain

We have the saddledome. It's 30 years old. easy.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The 4 nay votes would be?

Yes this will be important, why would they not want it released, what are they trying to hide

[s_procee]

I was really surprised when it said the original proposal was 2 years ago. There should be more traction at this point, it took two years for the city to propose Victoria park?

The flames aren't going anywhere, hopefully this advances the discussions.

[Ice_Weasel]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Right. So the "we'll just leave" or "not actively shopping" statements don't strike you as passive aggressive threats? Read between the lines and don't be silly about it. They're trying to convince every voter in Calgary that is dumb enough to believe them that they are ready to move if the right option becomes available.

For 200M plus, the city can get far better return on "rich investment" as you say and maybe that's where the focus should be. The Flames are lucky they are in a market like Calgary to begin with and if they don't see it as such it might be time they sell to someone that does or hit the road. A deal will get done with people that actually want to be fair about it. I've seen zero evidence to suggest the City is not attempting to be fair and a whole lot of BS out of the Flames camp to suggest they are not.

Passive aggressive threat / negotiating tactic. It is, after all, a negotiation. Reality is the city played their cards very poorly - releasing a glossy video showing their vision of a redeveloped Victoria Park with a new arena as the anchor. Oh, and guess what, the flames are essentially going to pay for it 100%. Victoria park is a collection of vacant lots and industrial land....it needs a big anchor tenant for the cities vision to be realized (and further justify the $6B c-train expansion). They need each other...so this posturing is ridiculous. But BOTH sides are to blame for that.

If the city has other co-investment options, I would be happy to debate them as required. In fact, it would be great if there was a new thread started about how much the City should be willing to subsidize Amazon to locate here.

[GullFoss]

I'm starting to wonder if this is all an act betwen Nenshi and the Flames to get the mandate the build an arena...because the 2 sides are pretty close (flames and city). Btu councillers still might not want to vote for it...

Now, Nenshi can run on a platform of "give the flames $XXXm," and when he wins, council basically has to vote along, because its a very strong mandata since thats exactly what Nenshi ran on.

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by morgin

For the record, soil remediation is not something that necessarily increases in cost over time. Cost of labour can go up or down depending on other economic factors. Technology improvements in remediation techniques can decrease costs as well. Any argument that presupposes the creosote will be more expensive to remediate as time goes on is flawed in that sense. It could be more expensive, but it could also be less expensive. It's sort of unknown ATM.

Not going to go into detail however, as someone who has been cleaning up contaminated sites for 20 years...the cost to cleanup contamination such as this will definitely be higher as time goes on. There is no magic potion that will bio-remediate the soils insitu in a timeframe of our lifetime (nor will one be found). Creosote, PAH's and heavy HC's do not break down easily, leaving very little options. One of the saving graces is that they are not as mobile and will not expand much over time. However, regulations and guildlines will get more stringent, thereby increasing volumes. Thinking there is going to some technology improvements that are going to be cheaper is wishful thinking. Best option is most likely source removal and risk assess the residuals.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Ice_Weasel

Passive aggressive threat / negotiating tactic. It is, after all, a negotiation. Reality is the city played their cards very poorly - releasing a glossy video showing their vision of a redeveloped Victoria Park with a new arena as the anchor. Oh, and guess what, the flames are essentially going to pay for it 100%. Victoria park is a collection of vacant lots and industrial land....it needs a big anchor tenant for the cities vision to be realized (and further justify the $6B c-train expansion). They need each other...so this posturing is ridiculous. But BOTH sides are to blame for that.

If the city has other co-investment options, I would be happy to debate them as required. In fact, it would be great if there was a new thread started about how much the City should be willing to subsidize Amazon to locate here.

you are free to start a new thread

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

We have the saddledome. It's 30 years old. easy.

And already being passed over by major acts...it also becomes more expensive to maintain as time passes

Do you honestly think the dome will be Calgary's major events center in 20 years? Something will be built eventually

[Mister Yamoto]

This has been circus since CalgaryNext was announced but maybe KK finally made a good move here.

My guess is that admitting there are no negotiations going on will kickstart the first actual negotiations on an arena deal. It also makes it harder for Nenshi to sell his "none of this my fault" stance. Although I'd assume he will come out and say something along those lines today.

[Tyler]

4 no votes:

Chabot
DCU
Chu
Magliocca

[Ozy_Flame]

haha of course.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Tyler

4 no votes:

Chabot
DCU
Chu
Magliocca

Figured.

[Johnny Makarov]

They have nothing to hide do they?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Tyler

4 no votes:

Chabot
DCU
Chu
Magliocca

is this fake news? a guess?

[s_procee]

Is there a set time for Nenshi's response?

Would be interested to hear the next tactic live

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Figured.

As someone not well versed in city councillors, why is this not surprising?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by dino7c

is this fake news? a guess?

I watched the stream online of the vote taking place