[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Manhattanboy]

Although CalgaryNEXT was flawed, I loved the scale, the vision, the grand plan. The feeling you get when touring big projects in big cities. Calgary really is just a small town that thinks small. And I am from here. Agree with Erik. Edmonton is trending higher than we are right now.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Calgary needs a new arena with or without th Flames. So we can build it with or without their help once they eventually leave. The dick measuring contest really needs to stop, and In my Opinion the first step for this to happen is for council to stop the whole "Show us the public benefit" line. There is clearly a public benefit to a new arena in this city, a public benefit to and all the jobs the Flames create, to the charities they are behind, and covic pride.

So cut the BS and move on to what's fair for each side.

They really apparently willing to give land and 1/3 of cost, so that's a pretty tangible indication of what the proportion they are viewing as widely public benefit. Ticket tax is also a 1/3 component, which is a direct user pay model - so an indication of the direct user benefit. And 1/3 owner benefit which seems more than fair - since they will see most of the revenue upside directly.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If the Flames want to call all the shots and make all the decisions, they can buy their own land and build it however they see fit. If they want monetary help, it's only fair that the other partner has conditions.

Or they can just move and Calgary build a 500M arena to house a WHL team and 30 concerts a year once the roof on the Saddledome collapses.

There needs to be a fair deal for both sides, but that's not gonna happen when Nenshi thinks he is running the show in my opinion. He has a long history of acting like a bully, and it's not going to work with Murray Edwards.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Bunk

They really apparently willing to give land and 1/3 of cost, so that's a pretty tangible indication of what the proportion they are viewing as widely public benefit. Ticket tax is also a 1/3 component, which is a direct user pay model - so an indication of the direct user benefit. And 1/3 owner benefit which seems more than fair - since they will see most of the revenue upside directly.

I think if that was the case, they'd still be at the table instead of the Flames Wallin away from them, but that's just my opinion.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Good:

Exorbitant hockey rinks for millionaires to play on

Bad:

Cancer hospitals

Now you're getting the theme

Bad:
East Village, with it's places to live, mediocre restaurants, and boring music museum

Good:
HOCKEY PLAYIR AREENA TO FIX IT

[Manhattanboy]

Worse. He acts like a pouty bully.

[Manhattanboy]

Oh ya forgot about that white elephant the National Music Museum. That didn't take long.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

They are going to have to work with the Flames if they want that though and come to the plate like other cities have. They can't have their cake and eat it too, but tthat's what Nenshi is accustom to doing.

I'm no fan of Ken King either, but I don't think anyone would be able to work with Nenshi on a project that he clearly sees as his own and his own legacy.

Nenshi comes across as building a legacy because he is. You can be as mad as you want at him for being as good of a mayor as he is, but what is that going to accomplish?

If Nenshi is accustomed to having his cake and eating it too, then it sounds like he's a pretty damn good negotiatior.

[expatflame]

Can I ask (probably obvious to everyone who lives in Cgy) but why do the Flames need a new arena? Is it just old? Why can't it just be renovated?

[Passe La Puck]

Why do people think Calgary will need to build an NHL arena if the Flames leave?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by expatflame

Can I ask (probably obvious to everyone who lives in Cgy) but why do the Flames need a new arena? Is it just old? Why can't it just be renovated?

The owners don't have enough luxury boxes to sell, ticket prices aren't high enough, and Jay Z won't come here.

Woe is us.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Nenshi comes across as building a legacy because he is. You can be as mad as you want at him for being as good of a mayor as he is, but what is that going to accomplish?

If Nenshi is accustomed to having his cake and eating it too, then it sounds like he's a pretty damn good negotiatior.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3507254/ca...d-up-meetings/


Lol.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Nenshi comes across as building a legacy because he is. You can be as mad as you want at him for being as good of a mayor as he is, but what is that going to accomplish?

Such a great mayor. My property taxes have increased 58% while the cost of my city services have skyrocketed all while getting less and less service. Meanwhile he spends his days arguing with nutjobs on twitter in between making false and inflammatory statements about businesses and business owners on twitter that end up getting him sued.

What an an awesome mayor we have. I love how he tells us how stupid we are when we disagree with him. Well used to, he sure changed his tune pretty quickly last month on that public art issue when he realized an election was coming and people are starting to have enough of his blatant arrogance.

And I voted for this man twice, by the way.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

Why do people think Calgary will need to build an NHL arena if the Flames leave?

Because there is 1.4M people here and the Jubilee isn't going to cut it for a civic centre? They can't refurbish the dome because of the roof and it might have 5-10 years left of useful life without a refurbishment or replacement.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Such a great mayor. My property taxes have increased 58% while the cost of my city services have skyrocketed all while getting less and less service.

There almost nothing more disengenuine than complaining about your property taxes increasing in the same thread where you are advocating for the city to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a luxury entertainment venue where you'll then spend even more money than you already do to use.

Don't pretend you care about money or getting value for your dollar. Nobody who does could possibly mention it in the same breath as "we need to replace our useable arena with one that holds less people, charges them more, and costs hundreds of millions of dollars of taxypayer money."

Nobody.

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Because there is 1.4M people here and the Jubilee isn't going to cut it for a civic centre? They can't refurbish the dome because of the roof and it might have 5-10 years left of useful life without a refurbishment or replacement.

So the Jubilee is inadequate but an NHL arena is, for what purpose exactly? For a hockey team it's pretty obvious but for everything else?

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There almost nothing more disengenuine than complaining about your property taxes increasing in the same thread where you are advocating for the city to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a luxury entertainment venue where you'll then spend even more money than you already do to use.

You are creating a direct relation with unfettered spending, tax increases and no new arena. Why doesn't the city cut it's spending right now, since no new arena is on the table and reduce taxes? His logic is correct in taxation increase and it's only going to get worse. The arena is off the table and does not exist. It has nothing to do with the actual increases he has experienced and his service levels and the fiscally irresponsible mayor.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There almost nothing more disengenuine than complaining about your property taxes increasing in the same thread where you are advocating for the city to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a luxury entertainment venue than you'll then spend even more money than you already do to use.

Don't pretend you care about money or getting value for your dollar. Nobody who does could possibly mention it in the same breath as "we need to replace our useable arena with one that holds less people, charges them more, and costs hundreds of millions of dollars of taxypayer money."

Nobody.

The problem with your argument is that The City is going to be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a new arena anyways, and as a tax payer I'd prefer they did that with the Flames picking up a good chunk of that while continuing to add the benefits to the city beycurrently do. I also want a new arena not to be owned and run by the City which is what will happen if the Flames were to leave. Those situations turn into real problems for cities that go that route.

The Saddledome is barely useable. It essentially can only be used for sporting events and the odd concert without a large stage setup: it won't even be able to do that within 5-10 years. We are one major snowstorm away from potentially not having an arena here. It's that bad.

[Philly06Cup]

It's interesting to me how many people consider CSEC greedy and are taking this issue so personally and getting angry.

There is a long-standing history of cities ponying up large amounts of money for a private stadium. Yes, it's corrupt, but there is a precedent. Obviously the Flames group would want that deal. It's not personal. They want to save hundreds of millions of dollars. They are willing to posture and threaten to leave and act like babies and influence an election because it could save them millions. Duh. Likewise, the commissioner of the NHL would want one of its team's owners to save hundreds of millions of dollars. Duh. It's business -- businesses are supposed to be greedy and to try to make/save money.

I also don't blame the city for holding their ground and wanting to break the corrupt municipal-stadium model. It's all fascinating to me, mostly from an economic standpoint. Will one side break? Will they reach a compromise?!

Meanwhile, the Calgary Flames still have a useable stadium and a very exciting team. I won't let this economic standoff ruin my enjoyment of this season or future seasons.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

So the Jubilee is inadequate but an NHL arena is, for what purpose exactly? For a hockey team it's pretty obvious but for everything else?

Are you Seriously saying that you don't think Calgary would not need some sort of civic centre just because they don't have a hockey team? Any city of our size needs a venue to hold 17-20,000 people. Our rink has about a 5 year shelf life left, ten if we are lucky.

The Flames not being here would not chance the requirment for some sort of new venue at all. What it changes is we are now on the hook for 100% of the cost and the cost of operations and overhead.