[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[troutman]

The mayor has one vote out of fifteen on City Council.

[Ryan Coke]

I'm trying to figure out who to be outraged at. But without knowing some facts, and some reliable details on how negotiations have gone, I am unable to join the disgusted anger that so many of you are fortunate enough to already feel towards one or the other parties.

I am disappointed with where things are at, but until there is some real info, I'll guess I'll just read everyone's else's outrage.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If it was "all about the money" the owners would have moved on a long time ago

The Calgary Flames have not been a good investment

Really? They've done very, very well

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by troutman

The mayor has one vote out of fifteen on City Council.

but likely some influence

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by New Era

The swap worked for only two parties; the city and the Stampede board. There is zero tangible benefit for the Flames in the swap. That's the point. The WV was at least an opportunity for the development of commercial facilities. That was the money maker for the ownership group. This is the model used by other ownership groups around the league in developing their entertainment and commercial districts. Without that, the Flames ownership really got nothing, but a new barn to play in. The city still owns pretty well everything, which does not provide value for the franchise, nor development opportunities for the ownership group fronting their junk of cash.

At a minimum the Red Strip here for commercial uses (they could also probably go vertical on the corners of the site for hotels and stuff) is surplus to the needs of the arena itself. I think this was part of the intent to give the Flames some real estate to work with for long term revenue. Now, if the Flames want some more - maybe negotiate the stuff across the street on Olympic Way abutting the casino?

[Weitz]

Heh, I do find it funny that Wills on twitter calls for a deal to made. Guy is paid by the team and lives in Cochrane. Doesn't even pay Calgary taxes.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

You want usage stats for a library that isn't open yet?

Whoosh

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Really? They've done very, very well

There are far better investments out there for a billionaire than an NHL team

none of these guys made their money on sports teams, its more of a hobby business

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

what a frigin downer. On the eve of camp starting, it feels like having to go thru an impending lockout battle while watching a season in parallel.

Try 8 seasons of it... in a row.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There are far better investments out there for a billionaire than an NHL team

none of these guys made their money on sports teams, its more of a hobby business

What is your point exactly? That since it isn't the absolute best way for them to make money, that we should subsidize this investment to make it more profitable? Because that's what they're asking us to do.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Heh, I do find it funny that Wills on twitter calls for a deal to made. Guy is paid by the team and lives in Cochrane. Doesn't even pay Calgary taxes.

He pays his Calgary taxes in the form of parking tickets whenever he subs in on the morning show.

[Conroy4Mayor]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The Seattle market is… wait for it… three times the size of the Calgary market.

The number of hockey fans in Seattle is... wait for it... one third as many as are in Calgary.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There are far better investments out there for a billionaire than an NHL team

none of these guys made their money on sports teams, its more of a hobby business

Well then they can just sell their hobby business to someone who wants to run an actual business and not get free handouts from the city.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by dino7c

There are far better investments out there for a billionaire than an NHL team

none of these guys made their money on sports teams, its more of a hobby business

How many people have made their fortunes owning sports teams?


It's selling sports teams where the investment pays off, like a house, a house that makes money. For most of these owners, selling their stake in the Flames would likely be one of the best investments they made with their wealth. Hell, Flames value in '94 vs today for Edwards. Terrible investment indeed.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Matty81

From that globe article i quoted:

"One source described the mood of the current owners as "frustrated" and open to selling their interest in the team"

Sounds like not shopping the flames but open to selling.

Well.... if that's the case lets start campaigning for new owners even richer than Murray & Company to buy them out and build us a rink with private money.

I nominate Garrett Camp. Born a Calgarian, went to the UofC. Net worth 7B USD.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What is your point exactly? That since it isn't the absolute best way for them to make money, that we should subsidize this investment to make it more profitable? Because that's what they're asking us to do.

my point is ONLY to the people saying that ALL they care about is the money...its simply not true

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by dino7c

my point is ONLY to the people saying that ALL they care about is the money...its simply not true

When 90% of what they care about is money, then yeah I suppose technically that's not all. I'm just not sure what makes up the other 10% though.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

How many people have made their fortunes owning sports teams?


It's selling sports teams where the investment pays off, like a house, a house that makes money. For most of these owners, selling their stake in the Flames would likely be one of the best investments they made with their wealth. Hell, Flames value in '94 vs today for Edwards. Terrible investment indeed.

not a chance

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The library can pay people money to go there and it really doesn't matter if an insignificant portion uses it when there's others available in the city. We have many libraries but one barely passable NHL arena. Yes there's infrastructure costs to any building. We all paid those same costs for that useless tin bookshelf.

Were you upset at the city paying for infrastructure upgrades to the east village? What about the ring road? Airport tunnel? Do you use all 3 of these areas a lot? I don't. But they all make sense (airport tunnel is a bit of a question mark now but is logical for future growth).

The land that the half cooked CalgaryNEXT idea was based off of is tainted. Regardless what happens with that land it still has to be cleaned up, and with creosote leeching into the water I would think it should be done sooner than later. That is another failing of city council by just letting it sit there.

Like bunk posted earlier about the city fronting 1/3 of the cost but expecting it to be paid back and only paying out in installments is asinine. You have to pay to play. Ideally I would be ok with the city fronting 30% ish of an arenas cost with no repayment plan. I want the flames here and I'm willing to pay for it. I've paid for a swath of things that have no bearing on my day to day life so it would be nice to have something this city pays for positively affect me

What do you understand "to be paid back" means? As I said before - I think that's through tax revenues generated from the district (and maybe arena itself if it's owned by the Flames and taxed commercially - in lieu of rent), not from the owners, so that would not be asinine at all - it's how a CRL works. Other possibility would be more conventional, which is rent if the City is to own it

On the Library vs Arena question, from that post I quoted earlier from Druh Farrell she talks about this exact thing:

I’ve heard the argument that since we paid $250 million for the new central library, why shouldn’t we do the same for an arena? Well, there is a spectrum of public versus private facilities.

On one end, the library is clearly a public institution: it’s universally accessible to the public, it’s free to enter and use, and its goals of literacy, education and community are wholly for the public good. On the other end of the spectrum, some facilities are fully private, such as corporate office buildings or country clubs that have exclusive access and are not generally open to the public. An arena is somewhere in the mushy middle: it is an important part of civic culture but there is an entry cost that is unaffordable for many people. An arena’s tenants and operator are private and highly profitable enterprises.

As such, I will continue to advocate that the Flames organization and its owners clearly demonstrate the degree of public benefit from a new arena. Calgarians need to know how we will recoup any public investment in dollars and cents, either through property taxes or profit sharing.

http://www.electdruh.ca/a_new_arena

Do people think this is actually an unreasonable stance and perspective?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Barnes

It is the second most used library system in the country. It has one of the lowest per capita funding in Canada. There was 6.2 million visits in 2015. In that same year, Calgarians attended 14,655 programs and borrowed 16 million items. 66% of the City of Calgary have a library card.

I don't believe that. I had a library card about 20 years ago, I never cancelled it, are they still counting me?
Makes me wonder about the other stats.