[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except you aren't right.

"Calgary offered to pay for one-third of the arena, in equal instalments over a number of years, according to a source. The money would have to be paid back. The ownership group, according to this proposal, would cover another third of the total cost and surcharge on tickets would pay for the remaining third, the source said.

The Flames organization rejected the offer, the source said."

So the city really isn't contributing anything, because they are getting their money back. For the honor of the city guaranteeing 1/3 of the money through some type of loan, the Flames get to build their arena where the city tells them, has no opportunity to develop the entertainment district, and has zero opportunity to develop condos or other commercial properties.

So pay for a second rate building on a third rate site where they get no opportunity for revenues outside the arena. Oh, and that would be on city owned land, in a deal made with the Stampede board in a land swap. Hard to believe the Flames would walk away from such an amazing deal for them?

As I said if it's a CRL "paying back" the contribution - that is tax money. You're right, it's not really "the City's" it's all our money as taxpayer - the "public", if you will. In this scenario, the owners aren't paying it back. Again, let's see the details.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Matty81

From that globe article i quoted:

"One source described the mood of the current owners as "frustrated" and open to selling their interest in the team"

Sounds like not shopping the flames but open to selling.

This is absolutely true. I know one of the owners well and he is extremely upset with the way this has gone and is open to that possibility.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

You make it seem like the swap applies to the Flames.

The Flames don't own any land. They don't own the land the Saddledome is on, they don't own the land CalgaryNEXT was proposed to be on, they don't own it anywhere.

The land swap is between the City and the Stampede, so the City can let the arena be built on it. CalgaryNEXT was predicated on the city owning the facility because it would also be on city land. If the team wants to buy the land on the arena site they want, then they would have more say on where it gets built.

The swap worked for only two parties; the city and the Stampede board. There is zero tangible benefit for the Flames in the swap. That's the point. The WV was at least an opportunity for the development of commercial facilities. That was the money maker for the ownership group. This is the model used by other ownership groups around the league in developing their entertainment and commercial districts. Without that, the Flames ownership really got nothing, but a new barn to play in. The city still owns pretty well everything, which does not provide value for the franchise, nor development opportunities for the ownership group fronting their junk of cash.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

If that's the case you sound like the desperate guy who showers his 'girlfriend' with presents so she'll stay with him.

"Here baby, take everything, just don't leave!"

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

What have I said that makes you think that exactly

I think both sides have ####ed up

Ken King and the King of the hipsters can both go pound sand


People saying they don't care about the Flames or hockey on a god damned Calgary Flames message board are full of ####

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Remarkably fair offer, of course they rejected it.

That's a terrible offer. Calgary ends up paying for nothing. If I'm the Flames I laugh at this and move to Seattle. Nenshi and council are obviously not willing to work with the Flames on a deal, if that's the offer they extended.

I know it's not an easy thought when the economy is bust, but a new arena would be such a boost to Calgary's economy, in the long run. Music and entertainment already bypass Calgary, since the Saddledome is a joke, and if a new arena isn't built everyone will head north instead.

This has become a vote for the "best" mayor or the best team in the world.

If Nenshi isn't willing to actually work with the Flames, I'm not so sure he's a good mayor.

Vote for Nenshi: In 20 years Calgary won't have Nenshi or the Flames

Vote for Flames: I know it's not this simple, but I would rather see the Flames in Calgary for 100+ years. I hope someone who fights to see an arena deal, that actually works for both sides, becomes the new mayor.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by New Era

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...900m-1.3195174

"It's not for the elites. It's not for the hockey players, not for the football players. It's for all of the citizens in our city," he said as he unveiled drawings that also showed several new condo and commercial towers and a hotel surrounding the new sports facilities.

Come on!

Their rendering included pictures of buildings surrounding CalgaryNext but not a word there, or anywhere else I'm fairly certain, about CESC participating in developing the whole parcel of land.

If that rendering is all the proof you need them we'll have to disagree on the Flames ownership groups intent

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The Legacy of good Nenshi has done far outweighs any foibles about a private sports team. He will be elected again, and has been fantastic as our mayor - I challenge anyone else to personally do a better job than he has in his position as Calgary mayor. Bill Smith should not be elected simy because he might get along better with sports team owners.

Find a way to get me elected, and I'll take you up on that challenge...

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Every book you've ever wanted to read is available for free on the internet. Every single one, they've all been transcribed. If you're having trouble finding one I can have you a copy in under an hour.

I don't want this city getting bent over like Edmonton did, however we have squandered money away on far more useless things like libraries.

For some quick math the saddledome seats ~20k. Calgary has a population of ~1 mil. So on any given sell out game we have 2% of the population of the city in the dome. Now let's multiply that by 41 home games. So 820 000 people attend a flames game assuming sell outs. Let's knock that down to 750 000 because not every night is a sell out. I just want to iterate that this is napkin math and speculation and is part of my reasoning. If there's stats to dispute it is gladly change my stance.

Do you think 750 000 people are using that damn library a year? 500 000? 25 000? I don't have access to the info to base my stance off of, however I doubt there's ~2000 people effectively using that library per day.

It is the second most used library system in the country. It has one of the lowest per capita funding in Canada. There was 6.2 million visits in 2015. In that same year, Calgarians attended 14,655 programs and borrowed 16 million items. 66% of the City of Calgary have a library card.

If you're so good at 'finding' books online, one would think you could find this information just as easily.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The Legacy of good Nenshi has done far outweighs any foibles about a private sports team. He will be elected again, and has been fantastic as our mayor - I challenge anyone else to personally do a better job than he has in his position as Calgary mayor.

Is this serious?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CF84

That's a terrible offer. Calgary ends up paying for nothing. If I'm the Flames I laugh at this and move to Seattle. Nenshi and council are obviously not willing to work with the Flames on a deal, if that's the offer they extended.

I know it's not an easy thought when the economy is bust, but a new arena would be such a boost to Calgary's economy, in the long run. Music and entertainment already bypass Calgary, since the Saddledome is a joke, and if a new arena isn't built everyone will head north instead.

This has become a vote for the "best" mayor or the best team in the world.

If Nenshi isn't willing to actually work with the Flames, I'm not so sure he's a good mayor.

Vote for Nenshi: In 20 years Calgary won't have Nenshi or the Flames

Vote for Flames: I know it's not this simple, but I would rather see the Flames in Calgary for 100+ years. I hope someone who fights to see an arena deal, that actually works for both sides, becomes the new mayor.

Until 25 years from now when they want another new arena and then the current mayor is the new Nenshi and it starts over again.

This isn't Nenshi, this is a municipality trying to avoid the pattern of bad arena deals for their cities.

[fulham]

Lets start a Fan campaign to raise money!!!!! to give to to a bunch of billionaires.

This is what your tax dollars going to this means...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by nik-

Until 25 years from now when they want another new arena and then the current mayor is the new Nenshi and it starts over again.

This isn't Nenshi, this is a municipality trying to avoid the pattern of bad arena deals for their cities.

So what is the alternative...no large arenas or stadiums?

Yeah that won't hurt anyone except the greedy billionares

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by New Era

The swap worked for only two parties; the city and the Stampede board.

Those are the only two parties with any land in the deal, so of course those are the parties it works for.

There is zero tangible benefit for the Flames in the swap.

The tangible benefit is they get land an arena can be built on. Land they don't otherwise have.

That's the point. The WV was at least an opportunity for the development of commercial facilities. That was the money maker for the ownership group.

Then they should buy the land and develop it.

This is the model used by other ownership groups around the league in developing their entertainment and commercial districts.

No, it's not.

Without that, the Flames ownership really got nothing, but a new barn to play in. The city still owns pretty well everything, which does not provide value for the franchise, nor development opportunities for the ownership group fronting their junk of cash.

Those poor billionaires don't get even more free land from the city to develop profit making ventures on, all they get is a half-billion dollar arena to make millions upon millions on, and didn't have to buy any land to do it.

[robaur]

Who is "IamNotKenKing"? Is he Ken King or not? Is it a play on words? Is he/she an employee within CSEC? Based on posts made by that user in this thread, it sure seems like he/she seems to have some privileged information.

One things for sure though, he/she is pissing me the #### off.

I can't believe I dropped $15K as a season ticket holder this season. These types of antics are disgraceful.

#### Murray Edwards.
#### the ownership group.
#### Ken King.
#### Gary Bettman.
#### the whole lot of them.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

This is absolutely true. I know one of the owners well and he is extremely upset with the way this has gone and is open to that possibility.

He should be upset. CSEC have come across as tone-deaf, greedy, and downright incompetent in the eyes of the public. I'd be pretty pissed too.

[BigFlameDog]

Some of you have lost your god damn minds....it is very entertaining though.

You would be saying hello to your Balzac flames playing out of the cross iron arena before they ever left the 403.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Is this serious?

Absolutely. PM me if you want to debate.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dino7c

So what is the alternative...no large arenas or stadiums?

Yeah that won't hurt anyone except the greedy billionares

The alternative is owners investing more of their own money to increase their own revenues, like every other multi million dollar business.

Or throwing a tantrum and threatening to leave, which is usually what happens.

Or actually leaving, which is a possibility.

[getbak]

So, this definitely makes it seem like Bill Smith is in the Flames' owners' pockets.

Now, we need Smith to clearly spell out what level of public funding he'd support. Based on the info on his website, I don't see anything to indicate he'd be any more receptive to handing over buckets of cash than Nenshi is. So, it makes me wonder what he's promising behind closed doors.


It's so weird how people who claim to be hardcore conservatives want everyone to get ahead in life by working hard and sacrificing, but don't hesitate to throw around billions of taxpayer money to prop up private enterprises.

[442scotty]

This franchise is on the upswing and has top value right now. If the city doesn't want to do what it takes to keep the team here you can bet the hidden message in today's news conference was that the team is available. Suitors will be in touch and everything will be done quietly until a deal is made. I wish I was wrong about this but think about it. It's only common sense....

The owners legitimately wanted a legacy project with the west village. They could make money with the side developments other than the arena / stadium. I don't blame the owners. They are as bummed out as we are. People should stop beating on them. At lot of cities would have jumped on the chance to develop that diseased land.