[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Listening to the guys on 960 right now. Embarassing how these guys carry water for the Flames. Do they really believe the stuff they're saying? I guess motivated reasoning can be powerful stuff, but Kerr, Francis and the rest are so out of touch with public sentiment in this city.

Or maybe you are?

They have access to public feedback on an almost perpetual basis, so I doubt they are clueless to sentiment.

[RyZ]

Id love to be rid of both King and Nenshi and let 2 new heads of their respective sides go at it. We would probably get deal pretty quickly. As long as King or Nenshi are involved we arent going to see any positive movement on this.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by nik-

Maybe when we get a replacement team someday they won't be run like the clown show we currently have. Probably a blessing in disguise.

Don't count on ever getting a replacement team. The Saddledome isn't magically going to become a profitable venue again, and the economics of building with private money aren't magically going to change, either.

We're stuck with what I call ‘Peter Spear syndrome’. Peter Spear was an old drama teacher of mine, way back in the dawn of civilization. Back in the 1980s, he quit his teaching job to start his own live theatre company, Aurora. Unlike all the other theatre companies in town, he was determined to make a go of it without public subsidy – which meant that he would not have to put on the plays that a bunch of shiny-bottomed bureaucrats in Edmonton or Ottawa wanted to ram down the public's throat.

But his competitors did not take kindly to his presence in their market. Being subsidized, they could afford to ‘paper the house’ with cheaper tickets, below Mr. Spear's break-even point. He fought valiantly to compete, even going back to his teaching job so he would not have to pay himself a salary. The burden of working both jobs – full-time for the school board, more than full-time for his own business – was too much for him. One Christmas, he went to visit his family in B.C. On his way home he felt ill, checked into a motel along the highway, and never checked out again. The cause of death was given as pneumonia, but it was overwork that killed him. Sheer exhaustion left his immune system too weak to fight off the disease.

It's almost impossible for a fully private business to compete in a field where all the other players are receiving public subsidies. The Flames aren't competing with other NHL teams for revenues, but they have to pay competitive salaries – and the CBA forces them to pay a certain amount. I doubt whether they can do that and also pay the full carrying costs of an arena. The Rangers and Leafs pay their own carrying costs, but those are the two biggest and most valuable hockey markets in the world (with all respect to Montreal). Most of the other teams are benefiting from sweetheart arena deals involving various amounts of public money.

I don't like the idea of public money being spent so the Flames can stay in town. If it has to be spent, I'd like to see it kept to a bare minimum – perhaps in the form of transportation infrastructure and a dollar-a-year lease on the building site. But it's unrealistic, the professional sport industry being what it is, to expect that it can be kept all the way down to zero.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by RM14

Yep, we miiight be able to lure an AHL team though! Right Winnipeg? Oh right they got an NHL team back no problem.

15 years later, and after a new arena was built, an a multi billionaire was willing to flush money down the toilet. You willing to roll the dice of having that perfect storm form again?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Seems Nenshi taken a little aback by this announcement:

Shawn Logan @ShawnLogan403
So after Ken King drops bomb that Flames are dropping quest for new arena in Calgary, @nenshi says he won't comment until tomorrow #yyccc

Not taken aback, ready to lay down their hammer. This is like Christmas frickin' Day for him (ok, Maybe not Christmas, but you know).

Among the best things that could have happened following his District Plan announcement last week, this is probably beyond his wildest hopes. Mr. Popular, Gary Bettman even weighed in. It enables him to say what he really wants to say, which is the deal they are prepared to offer.

If I were him - or the City representative, this is what I'd do and say:

- I'd have a huge press conference tomorrow morning:
- I'd lay out the deal they were prepared to offer - hmmmm, I bet it's something like 1/3 public contribution through land and CRL, 1/3 ticket tax, 1/3 direct owner's contrtibution. That's the obvious sweet spot for a fair deal.
- I'd talk about how this is a fair proportion between, private, public and users themselves
- I'd talk about how the Edmonton Arena deal can't work here, Edmonton's downtown called for desperate measures and they had office tenants at the time that could make the debt deal work. Here, there is no such tenant: 30% vacancy
-I'd talk about the Seattle privately financed deal, and that this deal is far more generous from the public.
- I'd talk about how this is a predictiable tactic and welcome the Flames back to the table at any time to participate in the grand plans for Victoria Park

And that's not going to go well for the Flames, I predict.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

LOL!

Why should Nenshi want to get something done? His position has been consistent. No public dollars for no public benefit.

God, this is just manically crazy at this point. It's like a cold shower. "If Nenshi had wanted to get something done." LOLOLOLOL! He's not the one asking the flames for money to build an arena!

I just drank a whole medicine cabinet of crazy pills! The Flames just literally grabbed their ball and went home.

The bad faith actors in this scenario are obvious, man.

"If Nenshi had wanted to get a deal done." LOL! Trumpland. Doing Deals, making deals, banging out deals, negotiating deals.

The City has spent millions on this fiasco already, funding studies and proposals the Flames should've brought to the table 7 or 8 years ago.

Whoa, I have no idea why my comments set you off. And stuff the "Trumpland" BS please.

I have heard Nenshi's refrain a million times and I agree with it. I think it's ridiculous handing out taxpayer money to pro sports owners.

The brutal reality though is that it happens all the time and I'm not going to ridicule fans who would not object to seeing the city of Calgary do what other cities have done.

[Sheva #7]

Originally Posted by New Era

One last thing to consider here, and it is a scary thought, does Murray Edwards have a little more insight on the direction of the Calgary economy? Maybe he knows the days of oil are coming to a close and is not willing to roll the dice on the Calgary economy diversifying in any substantial way so it could support a team any longer?

don't think that is the case based on the latest CNRL deals

[Finger Cookin]

Over 10 years since the first article I can find where the Flames (King) publically discuss the possibility of a new arena. We've come a long way.

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Columnist...40643-sun.html

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Don't count on ever getting a replacement team. .

I don't. I'm sure my life will be fine not spending money on the Flames. I'm over it at this point if this is the route they want to take. Good luck to them.

[Krynn]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

You can't earn that "World Class City" badge without one.

We already lose out on the mega concerts i think more bands and other shows will continue to skip Calgary even the ones that scale down Their shows for the Dome.
I was in Edmonton for the UFC event and It kills me to say this that arena is amazing.

[Table 5]

The thing that pisses me off about this whole thing, is that Ken King and the ownership group, with their incompetence, arrogance, and passive aggressive threats, have made me really start detesting the Flames organization. I can't believe I'm basically cheering against a team that I've been following since childhood.

I strongly doubt this would've been the case if Hotchkiss was still around.

[bluejays]

With most seeing through this as a political play, which it likely is, everyone should be voting to re-elect Nenshi to stick it to ownership. Since they want to bring politics into it, people should be bringing politics to them by bringing Vote Nenshi signs to games. lol

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So let me get this straight. Public money going to an arena is a bad idea, but if the public teat pays 100 percent of the cost of an arena after the principal tenant is gone, that's somehow good?

You're hilarious. Unintentionally, I'm sure, but hilarious nonetheless.

And the idea that an NBA franchise could work in Calgary? Ask the Vancouver Grizzlies about that one. For that matter, ask the NBA.

Its not even about the fact the NBA wouldn't work, its the mere fact there is zero chance the NBA will ever come to Calgary. There are over 20-25 cities the NBA would consider first.

NBA will never come to Calgary. Its about as realistic as Amazon choosing Calgary to have a second HQ here.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Id love to be rid of both King and Nenshi and let 2 new heads of their respective sides go at it. We would probably get deal pretty quickly. As long as King or Nenshi are involved we arent going to see any positive movement on this.

While that seems a likely bet, I'm willing to put money on it now that it won't be that easy.

We will see shortly, but my sense is that - outside the Flames fan community and possibly hockey fans in general in Calgary - there is zero desire to support a new arena in other than an overall way. People didn't want to pay a few bucks a month extra for recycling services that saves everyone (including their short-sighted selves) money. You really think that sentiment will change? I doubt it.

Sure, people become big Flames fans during the playoffs and it seems like, if they get on a run (think 2004, 1989, 1986) the whole city lights up. That's a big difference to asking a now-unemployed-ex-oil company worker to cough up a bunch of dough so Murray Edwards et al can have a new box for their toys. Just not gonna happen until at least the economy improves dramatically. And maybe not then either.

The Flames ownership seem to be playing "mine are bigger than yours" and that's a really bad public negotiating tactic.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Listening to the guys on 960 right now. Embarassing how these guys carry water for the Flames. Do they really believe the stuff they're saying? I guess motivated reasoning can be powerful stuff, but Kerr, Francis and the rest are so out of touch with public sentiment in this city.

It is hard to listen to.

I wouldn't mind hearing what the sentiment is on this board, if we could get a properly worded poll, that would be appreciated.

Maybe make it simple, Nenshi's vision or King/Flames.

[calgarygeologist]

Good bye Flames. Hopefully the new team will be able to put together a better management team.

[GullFoss]

A few random thoughts

1) The flames threat to move, if made, would not be credible. Thus, conversation around this topic will die out soon enough. *yawn, next*

2) I wasn't going to bother voting in the municipal election - because i was generally happy with the direction of the city (which is utopia relative to the province and the feds). But now I feel obliged to actually get off my bum and go vote for Nenshi. Which is very irritating, because I am very lazy.

3) If the flames were going to pay $450m for the West Village idea, why won't they pay $450m for the East Village idea? Its not as though the stampeders were to pull in a ton of incrimental cash flow from the field house/outdoor stadium...

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

NBA will never come to Calgary. Its about as realistic as Amazon choosing Calgary to have a second HQ here.

Less realistic than that, actually. Amazon has publicly announced that it's looking for a city to build a second HQ in.

Just to reinforce your point.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Good bye Flames. Hopefully the new team will be able to put together a better management team.

It's not all that likely that a WHL team could afford better management.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Flames for Amazon HQ2?