[GDT] 2017 Young Stars Classic: Flames vs Canucks. 3pm MT. calgaryflames.com

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I think Valimaki will get the nine games.

From what I've seen so far at least, I agree. Don't think it'll be the full 9, but I think he'll definitely get some playing time.

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Valimaki - Stone

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I think Valimaki will get the nine games.

Before this tournament, I didn't think 'is Valimaki better than Brett Kulak right now?' was a legitimate question.

Now I do.

[Caged Great]

The better question I have is how the hell did Valimaki fall to 15?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The better question I have is how the hell did Valimaki fall to 15?

I think last years draft was actually underrated in terms of depth by media/fans. You saw lots of quotes from scouts to that effect but once a draft gets pegged as "weak" by some media the phrase just gets parroted over and over again. If you really dug into the interviews with scouts last draft everybody was really high on the top 20 or so and thought it would be all over the place because of the variety of different types of players available. The top end lacked a generational player but that didn't mean the players from 3-15 weren't comparable to previously touted "deep" drafts.

But yeah early on it looks like a bit of a steal on our part and really that was apparent when you listened to the interviews with Tod Button and Treliving after the pick. Everybody was ecstatic about landing him and the normally reserved Button just raved about the kid and his upside. I knew from what we heard about him at that time that we had likely landed a bluechip prospect.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...es-2017-draft/
(Valimaki talk starts around 5:20)

Kind of hard to judge at this point who shouldn't have gone ahead of him. Also some teams have different needs and different depth charts so that factors in. But if you're a believer that defensemen are supremely valuable than he probably should have gone ahead of a couple of the forwards that went ahead of him. TB apparently took Foote in particular because of their need for RHD, they probably had Foote and Valimaki close. Vegas took the little, dynamic Brannstrom over Valimaki. I guess that's fair but I'd rather the bigger, more well rounded defenseman who more easily projects as a top pairing guy.

Flames said they had him top 11 and early views say that their evaluation of him as deserving of going that high was correct. Nobody agrees in scouting so lets just be happy that fantastic picks keep falling to us (Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Valimaki) and that the Flames scouting is solid enough to snatch them up. Couldn't be happier with how our last few 1st rounders have ended up. Our scouting really seems to have matured into the top 1/3 of the league which is a nice change from all the drafts I followed from the mid 90's til the early 2010's.

If we want to thank a few teams in particular I'd like to send out a big thank you to the Canucks for sparing us from taking Juolevi cause I kind of think that's who we would have taken if Tkachuk wasn't there. Of course it was always going to be awkward for the Canucks to take another winger after drafting Virtanen, Boeser and already having Baertschi and Granlund when centres and dmen are the more valuable positions. I expected VAN to pass on Tkachuk but was fairly convinced EDM was going to take him. However since then I have heard rumours that if Puljujarvi hadn't fallen to them that they were going to take Sergachev. So perhaps Tkachuk was always destined to be a Flame because one of VAN/EDM was going to take a dman. Another big shout out to the Vegas Golden Knights who passed on Valimaki not once, not twice but three times before our pick. Thanks McPhee and co!

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Schneider definitely got better, but he still doesn't seem to control the rebounds well. I remain unconvinced he can be anything more than an AHL backup.

Overall, good game Flames. Dominated for the most part.

Not going to fully disagree with you, but I was sitting 5 rows up in the Calgary defensive end for 2 periods, and schnieder really looked way more solid then I was expecting. Especially in the Third when Vancouver came out with some jam. He tracked the puck well, seemed to sense the puck when he was being screened. Pretty quick with the pads. I think he improved vastly since last year. Might be a late bloomer. It wouldn't surprise me to see him pass McDonald on the depth chart.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I think Valimaki will get the nine games.

I kind of doubt it. Only way he does is if Kulak really craps the bed. Due to waivers keeping Valimaki into the regular season would mean waiving Kulak and potentially losing him. So it doesn't really make sense unless they want to cut bait on Kulak.

If the Flames were worse I think he'd be a guy you'd consider keeping. But there's no need to rush him. I think he'll stay deep into camp but I think the easy decision is to send him back. It's one of the hardest positions in the league to break into.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I kind of doubt it. Only way he does is if Kulak really craps the bed. Due to waivers keeping Valimaki into the regular season would mean waiving Kulak and potentially losing him. So it doesn't really make sense unless they want to cut bait on Kulak.

If the Flames were worse I think he'd be a guy you'd consider keeping. But there's no need to rush him. I think he'll stay deep into camp but I think the easy decision is to send him back. It's one of the hardest positions in the league to break into.

Yeah I can't see a situation where it makes any sense to keep Valimaki up

[Braden]

I really liked them running the 4-1 on the PP, Andersson handled it beautifully. Without a doubt he was the defensemen of the game. However on the same note I don't think Valimaki made one bad pass the whole game. Very exciting to see. I cant wait to see Janko and Foo play with some roster players both looked great. Mangiapane looked like a Mcdavid ultra-lite with the way he used his edges, will look forward to seeing the steps he takes aswell.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The better question I have is how the hell did Valimaki fall to 15?

I've been asking this question all summer in the kids thread (guess I should learn to spell his name).

I thought there might be attitude issues or something, but he's been captaining every international team he plays on! 🤷🏾#♂️ Guess we just got lucky, or everyone else got dumb.

FTR. I think the Flames will have a decision to make late in camp, because he is soooooooo good, but at the end of the day, every other 6-7 contender outside of Anderson needs Waivers so he gets sent back.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I kind of doubt it. Only way he does is if Kulak really craps the bed. Due to waivers keeping Valimaki into the regular season would mean waiving Kulak and potentially losing him. So it doesn't really make sense unless they want to cut bait on Kulak.

If the Flames were worse I think he'd be a guy you'd consider keeping. But there's no need to rush him. I think he'll stay deep into camp but I think the easy decision is to send him back. It's one of the hardest positions in the league to break into.

Keeping Valimaki doesn't necessarily mean potentially losing Kulak to waivers.

If the Flames decide to keep Valimaki, it means waiving two of Kulak, Bartkowski, or Wotherspoon instead of one.

They could run a 7 man D like:
Giordano-Hamilton
Brodie-Hamonic
Valimaki/Kulak-Stone
Kulak/Valimaki

There is a good chance both Bartkowski and Wotherspoon clear waivers. Bartkowski didn't have a NHL contract until 2 weeks before the last trade deadline and Wotherspoon already cleared waivers last year.

So potentially a low risk scenario to add Valimaki even for the 9 games, although it is still dependent on him having a great camp.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I kind of doubt it. Only way he does is if Kulak really craps the bed. Due to waivers keeping Valimaki into the regular season would mean waiving Kulak and potentially losing him. So it doesn't really make sense unless they want to cut bait on Kulak.

If the Flames were worse I think he'd be a guy you'd consider keeping. But there's no need to rush him. I think he'll stay deep into camp but I think the easy decision is to send him back. It's one of the hardest positions in the league to break into.

I think the Flames should be worrying about icing the best possible team, not losing depth players on waivers. Keep in mind, that Vegas passed on all of Kulak, Wotherspoon and Bartkowski.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

There is a good chance both Bartkowski and Wotherspoon clear waivers. Bartkowski didn't have a NHL contract until 2 weeks before the last trade deadline and Wotherspoon already cleared waivers last year.

So potentially a low risk scenario to add Valimaki even for the 9 games, although it is still dependent on him having a great camp.

If they really want to test those waters they could go with 13 forwards and 8 defensemen to start the season and send Bartkowski down, that is if they're afraid of losing Wotherspoon.

My guess at this time of year he slips through pretty easily.

If he looks good he deserves to stay, even if it's for only the 9 game audition. Pace those games out over the team's first 15 games then send him back with a better appreciation for pro hockey etc.

Wouldn't be shocked.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Hockey

In all honesty these types of prospects tournaments don't mean much to players like Juolevi. Guys who are on try-outs and stuff like that go all out while guys like Juolevi, Boeser just try to not get hurt and get to main camp. Now if Juolevi struggles in main camp and preseason games I'll be a bit concerned.

I'll also say that I don't think he should've been drafted at 5 overall, but I'm not quick to write him off yet.

The problem with Juolevi is that he also had a very mediocre year in Junior last year. He regressed significantly from his draft year (which may prove he was a product of a strong London Knights team instead of being a major contributor to their success). He is also a player that needs to go all out as he is certainly not assured a spot in the main camp. I mean he's technically in the same spot as Valimaki, and you don't see Valimaki make flagrant mistakes like getting walked multiple times by guys on try outs or low on the depth chart.

Juolevi has looked mediocre aside from the WJC before the draft which propelled him higher than he really should be.

Canucks fans are really worried. Worse is he seems to have been told to put weight ala Virtanen in the off season, and he's become soft and slower.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I kind of doubt it. Only way he does is if Kulak really craps the bed. Due to waivers keeping Valimaki into the regular season would mean waiving Kulak and potentially losing him. So it doesn't really make sense unless they want to cut bait on Kulak.

If the Flames were worse I think he'd be a guy you'd consider keeping. But there's no need to rush him. I think he'll stay deep into camp but I think the easy decision is to send him back. It's one of the hardest positions in the league to break into.

Treliving stated at the STH meeting in June that the organization is unlikely to put an 18 year old in the lineup again. They did it with their top 6 picks but that is not a shocker as Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk all deserved the spots they got as rookies. Perhaps Valimaki makes it but he will have t be better than the best young Dman to make it. The Flames top 5 is locked down and they have prospects pushing.

I think Valimaki will make it if he is a clear tier ahead of Kulak, Witherspoon, Kylington, Anderson otherwise he goes back to junior

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I think the Flames should be worrying about icing the best possible team, not losing depth players on waivers. Keep in mind, that Vegas passed on all of Kulak, Wotherspoon and Bartkowski.

100% agreed. I guess my post didn't really detail all of the reasons why I think it's unlikely.

-One of the hardest positions to break into
-Think it's unlikely Valimaki is heads and shoulders above the rest which I think he'd have to be to stay beyond the start of the season
-Keeping him may mean losing a depth player unecessarily. That depth player might be useful when you do send Valimaki down (as you guys have pointed out that reason alone isn't going to make the decision)
-The organization doesn't like putting 18 year olds in the lineup
-We're now out of the rebuild phase and in the contending phase so we're even less likely to be keeping 18 year olds than a couple years ago
-Valimaki is heading back to a good situation playing a lot of games in a physical WHL and will likely have a big role for Finland in the WJC

I really thought Tkachuk had a good chance of sticking last year for various reasons. I really don't think Valimaki has a good chance of being here come the regular season. This isn't the season to be experimenting with 18 year old defencemen IMO. I think the Flames are going to be ultra hesistant to keep him up

[Poe969]

If Valimaki comes in and is the 6th best defenseman on the team, he'll make the team. I think there's a good chance he does because I don't think Kulak or Spoon have much more potential than being veterans in the minors and that's pretty much what Bartowski is. I'm thinking they'll give the #6 spot to one of Anderson, Valimaki, Buzz Killington, or another rookie and maybe keep Kulak/Spoon around as the #7. They have to let the guys who are better right now and also have more upside play and learn.

I'm thinking 1 rookie starts on D and 1 or 2 rookie forwards make the team.

[Beninho]

I still don't know what Kulak does well, lots of people here like him but I've never been a fan. Valimaki probably won't beat him out this year but will next year. Kulak probably won't be on this team within 1-2 years. I see him as a fringe NHL'er.

[dammage79]

Yeah I dont think Kulak or Wotherspoon set the bar too high to supplant either of them on the depth chart. Valimaki and Kylington can easily jump those two.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Firebot

The problem with Juolevi is that he also had a very mediocre year in Junior last year. He regressed significantly from his draft year (which may prove he was a product of a strong London Knights team instead of being a major contributor to their success). He is also a player that needs to go all out as he is certainly not assured a spot in the main camp. I mean he's technically in the same spot as Valimaki, and you don't see Valimaki make flagrant mistakes like getting walked multiple times by guys on try outs or low on the depth chart.

Juolevi has looked mediocre aside from the WJC before the draft which propelled him higher than he really should be.

Canucks fans are really worried. Worse is he seems to have been told to put weight ala Virtanen in the off season, and he's become soft and slower.

Skipping Tkachuk in favour of Juolevi (who legitimately has regressed) may be seen as one of the worst draft decisions in a long time. It seemed so obvious Tkachuk was the BPA. It makes me so happy.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Nevermind. Wrong thread.