[News] Dreger: Still sizable gap between Bennett and Flames

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by hayduke's dad

Yup 26 points puts him about right up there with Croby, McDavid, and oh yeah wait Antoine Vermette only outscored him by 2 points.



Screw him go overseas. These guys are overpaid whiners. 26 points a year should not get you over $1million.



outscored by Jeff Petry (D), Zach Hyman(who?) Dion oh wait for it Phaneuf



Sorry being tied for 280th in league scoring does not put you in the most talented category. Probably guys with more talent who drank it away.

Yes, it does put you in the most talented category. Even fringe NHL players are in the absolute top of the talent pool of their field. That pool is the NHL and it is highly exclusive. Also, he gets paid what the market says he gets paid. Why don't you complain about the millions the owners make? Where do you suggest the money that the these 'whiny' players don't deserve goes? More for the owners? We all support pro hockey, so we all support the high salaries.


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[Corral]

Should not have caved with Gaudreau last year when all he could do is hold out or demand a trade if he didn't like the Flames' offer. Would have been better to send a message to these other players that holding out gets you nowhere in Calgary unless you have real leverage to bargain with. Hold outs who don't have leverage can skate with their favorite junior team and ride the bus.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Corral

Should not have caved with Gaudreau last year when all he could do is hold out or demand a trade if he didn't like the Flames' offer. Would have been better to send a message to these other players that holding out gets you nowhere in Calgary unless you have real leverage to bargain with. Hold outs who don't have leverage can skate with their favorite junior team and ride the bus.

By all reports and accounts it wasn't the Flames that caved last season, it was Gaudreau. Think you have it backwards.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Corral

Should not have caved with Gaudreau last year when all he could do is hold out or demand a trade if he didn't like the Flames' offer. Would have been better to send a message to these other players that holding out gets you nowhere in Calgary unless you have real leverage to bargain with. Hold outs who don't have leverage can skate with their favorite junior team and ride the bus.

What? You think the Flames are the ones that caved? Gaudreau's camp are the ones that caved. Gaudreau admitted he made the call to let his agent know he didn't want to miss a game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Par

I don't mean that Sam Bennett, will displace Getzlaf or Kesler this year, next year or the year after that. I mean in the long term, the Ducks would develop Sam Bennett better than the Flames, the same way that the Ducks developed Getzlaf.

So, you could see Bennett forcing the Flames hand to trade him because he is dissatisfied with the logjam behind Monahan and Backlund at centre in Calgary, and yet propose that Anaheim—where the same logjam exists but filled by arguably better players—would be a better fit because— ...why, exactly?

As for Backlund, if this is the way that Brad is going to negotiate(which is best way), than Backlund contract talks need to begin, at the earliest because it will take forever with Backlund.

It was reported in July that Treliving has already spoken with Backlund's reps about an extension. As usual your penchant for misery and panic is premature.

[Par]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, you could see Bennett forcing the Flames hand to trade him because he is dissatisfied with the logjam behind Monahan and Backlund at centre in Calgary, and yet propose that Anaheim—where the same logjam exists but filled by arguably better players—would be a better fit because— ...why, exactly?


It was reported in July that Treliving has already spoken with Backlund's reps about an extension. As usual your penchant for misery and panic is premature.

I just used the Ducks as a example.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is why short term contracts exist. The Monahan and Gaudreau contracts were significantly more complex because the term of the deal was such a variable and the $ amounts involved were so much larger.

I can't possibly believe either side is looking long term here and unless one side is being totally unreasonable, they can't be more than a few $100K apart.

The other deals I mentioned were $40 million deals with tremendous risk to the organization. This is nothing like that.

So I don't see the complexity here.

Disagree ...

Given the team's core locked down and the window they are trying to establish and prolong, a mistake on Bennett's contract could cost the team Backlund.

A one year deal and a 50 point + season and they lose control.

I think this is a very hard deal to negotiate because the Flames are insisting on a three year term, and Bennett's group doesn't want that because his numbers have him south of 3M per for that term.

Becomes a line in the sand that Treliving doesn't want to cross.

[bubbsy]

Caught treliving finishing up on the fan this morning. Any interesting tidbits there?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Caught treliving finishing up on the fan this morning. Any interesting tidbits there?

You can listen here

Classic Tree talk...pretty much says nothing.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Disagree ...

Given the team's core locked down and the window they are trying to establish and prolong, a mistake on Bennett's contract could cost the team Backlund.

A one year deal and a 50 point + season and they lose control.

I think this is a very hard deal to negotiate because the Flames are insisting on a three year term, and Bennett's group doesn't want that because his numbers have him south of 3M per for that term.

Becomes a line in the sand that Treliving doesn't want to cross.

Tkachuk is part of the core.

He had a better rookie season than Monahan and Draisatl and Bennett and a better 18-19 year old season pretty much anyone else outside of Matthews and Laine. When does he become eligible for offer sheets?

[robaur]

Can someone provide an example of a team that had control such young stars/projected stars and could afford to pay them all?

Forwards: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett and then you have to pay Backlund.

Defence: Hamilton, Brodie and then you have Giordano, Hamonic

How do you afford to pay everyone? Something has to give...doesn't it?

The way that Tkachuk is going....he might sign the biggest contract out of all of them.

[Poe969]

Somethings gotta give like...Troy Brouwer? It just goes to show how one bad contract really screws things up and why they can't afford to mess things up with Bennett. At the same time, if Brouwer has a bounce back year and becomes the player he's getting paid to be and a rookie or two force their way onto the roster it gets more complicated...in a really good way.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by robaur

Can someone provide an example of a team that had control such young stars/projected stars and could afford to pay them all?

Forwards: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett and then you have to pay Backlund.

Defence: Hamilton, Brodie and then you have Giordano, Hamonic

How do you afford to pay everyone? Something has to give...doesn't it?

The way that Tkachuk is going....he might sign the biggest contract out of all of them.

IMO its why, as much as it is hard to swallow, you have to look at trading Backlund this trade deadline.

One thing for sure is you cannot let him hit UFA and risk getting nothing for him.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by robaur

Can someone provide an example of a team that had control such young stars/projected stars and could afford to pay them all?

Forwards: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett and then you have to pay Backlund.

Defence: Hamilton, Brodie and then you have Giordano, Hamonic

How do you afford to pay everyone? Something has to give...doesn't it?

The way that Tkachuk is going....he might sign the biggest contract out of all of them.

Yes, and no. That's why everyone wants a 3 year deal with Sam, because then you'd have Hamonic, Brodie, Stone, Frolik and Brouwer all ending their contracts at the same time in 3 years. It gives us great time to evaluate who stays and who doesn't, who we can fit in and who we can't.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Disagree ...

Given the team's core locked down and the window they are trying to establish and prolong, a mistake on Bennett's contract could cost the team Backlund.

A one year deal and a 50 point + season and they lose control.

I think this is a very hard deal to negotiate because the Flames are insisting on a three year term, and Bennett's group doesn't want that because his numbers have him south of 3M per for that term.

Becomes a line in the sand that Treliving doesn't want to cross.

The value of a 1 or 2 deal is pretty obvious - I can't see how they could be more than a few dollars apart.

If the issue is, as you say, that the Flames are insisting on a 3 year deal then its not an issue of complexity, but its a case of two sides disagreeing on something. I would definitely be advising Bennett not to sign such a deal until he can demonstrate improved performance.

Do you believe the Flames are refusing to provide a number for a 1 or 2 year deal?

[FurnaceFace]

The interview this morning on the Fan wasn't anything special. It is extra nice to have Warrener back though to ask the "been there" type of question. The most interesting thing asked was if Bennett was in town skating. He's not, he's back in Ontario on his own.

The after interview discussion was better than the interview with Rhett saying something like at the time every dollar seems important but after the fact, it really isn't and the 100-200k difference won't be a big deal. They also listed off comparables who signed new deals: Burikovsky, Connor Brown, Teravainen, Fast. All those guys signed 2-3 year deals for 2-3M and Bennett had the worst numbers of them all. Everyone expects something will get done in that range.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Not that Bennett showed enough to earn a big buck long term deal the Flames have not done a heck of a lot to make him look good.

Earned not given. Bennett has not played well enough to establish himself on the top two lines in Calgary. He just hasn't. Plays routinely die on his stick as he tries to beat a d-man one-one-one and the puck ends up in the corner. Routinely. He's a strong forechecker, and good at driving hard to the net for rebounds and dirty goals. But he has not shown the vision or patience to use his teammates and distribute the puck at the NHL level.

He had PP time. He had more of it early in the season, but he didn't produce. Don't produce and your pp time gets cut back. Same as it is for everybody.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If you failed to see the growth in his game last year, then so be it - but we've had our GM and Head Coach praise Bennett this off-season.

Of course they did. What else are they going to do - throw a young 4th overall pick under the bus?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I would argue he was 6th among forwards for PP time as I stated Versteeg played primarily quarterback meaning he did have a spot on the top 2 lines.

Secondly it doesn't matter much to me where he ranks NHL wise for PP TOI, as he has to earn it in Calgary, not Carolina.

When it comes to the PPP/60 you conveniently use quality of teammate to support your argument but not quality of competition. I'm not about to look it up as I honestly don't care to and also I don't put a ton of weight into those stats, but you can't say he's playing with worse guys without also acknowledging that the opponents wont be the defensive dynamos the first unit is playing against.

Edit:

202nd in the league for PP time:

202/30 teams=6.7ish so that puts him 6-7th forward on average per team.

253rd in the league for PP min/game

253/30 teams =8.43 so between 8-9th forward PP time per game.

Those stats you posted look a lot more intimidating without context and relativity.

I posted them specifically for context. You tried to make the point that Bennett got ample opportunity last year. I illustrated exactly how little opportunity he got (similar to Caggiula and Bickell).

You continue to believe that being between 7th and 9th on a team (on average) for PP time is opportunity. I am saying that it isn't - only 4th liners don't get any time. He is in the mix with other 3rd liners.

That isn't 'ample opportunity'.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Par

I don't mean that Sam Bennett, will displace Getzlaf or Kesler this year, next year or the year after that. I mean in the long term, the Ducks would develop Sam Bennett better than the Flames, the same way that the Ducks developed Getzlaf.

As for Backlund, if this is the way that Brad is going to negotiate(which is best way), than Backlund contract talks need to begin, at the earliest because it will take forever with Backlund.

So if the Ducks make him a 3rd line C, and develop him over the course of several years, and make him earn a top 6 role away from the other guys, they have handled him well.

But if the Flames make him the 3rd line C, and develop him over the course of several years, and make him earn a top 6 role away from the other guys, they are not handling him well?

Okay then.

[robaur]

Rhett made a comment on the radio this morning that Bennett should be in town skating with the rest of his teammates. The fact that he's in Ontario is just for appearance purposes in negotiations but that he shouldn't be doing that.