[News] Dreger: Still sizable gap between Bennett and Flames

[GullFoss]

you know what would be interesting - if the flames were actually tying to push Bennett to sign a 1 year deal at a super low "prove it" contract rather than a 3+ year contract...

Say 1 year at 1.5m. Would free up enough cap space to go after 2 vets rather than one...

[Jiggy]

Has the agent not looked at the depth chart? Jankowski and Lazar are licking their chops for that third line center role. Tre has no pressure, it's all on Sam's camp.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

you know what would be interesting - if the flames were actually tying to push Bennett to sign a 1 year deal at a super low "prove it" contract rather than a 3+ year contract...

Say 1 year at 1.5m. Would free up enough cap space to go after 2 vets rather than one...

This would likely spell the end of Backlund's time in Calgary, as both Backs and Bennett would require new deals next summer with Tkachuk coming up for a new deal the following summer.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This would likely spell the end of Backlund's time in Calgary, as both Backs and Bennett would require new deals next summer with Tkachuk coming up for a new deal the following summer.

Only if Bennett performs. If Bennett doesn't come out of the gate looking like he's going to take that next step as #2 center, the Flames will, and should, give Backlund the cake he's asking for. Backlund is currently performing in that slot and should maintain until one of the other centers comes in and beats him for his job. Bennett has to come in and beat Backlund early. If he doesn't, I don't think it bodes well for Bennett long term with the Flames. I believe one of them will be the long term #2 center, and the other will be used in a hockey trade to improve the immediate forward depth. Which one goes is up to Bennett and his performance.

[Strange Brew]

I have sympathy for the player if he only wants a 1 or 2 year deal. I can understand the team may want longer, but really you can't force a player into a long term deal. The way I see it, the team has leverage with regards to $'s, the player has some leverage with regards to term. I would hope there is a $ amount on the table (from both sides) for each of 1, 2 or 3 years.

I'm not entirely sure why Treliving gets a reputation as a hard ass negotiator. He is patient to be sure, which is an important part of negotiations, but he has shown he is willing to pay top $ for what he wants. Hamonic and Smith trades are examples. And while Gaudreau and Monahan signings may have dragged on, its not like they both didn't get FMV in my opinion. Giordano too.

My concern level for Bennett signing is at 1%. My preference is he didn't miss any of training camp but there's no doubt he gets signed.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Johansen is an interesting comparable, but at this stage of his pro career, Johansen had 3 full years of pro plus one additional year in the WHL.

Johansen:

Draft +1: Played in the WHL

Draft +2: 21 points in the NHL (67 games played), 20 points in the AHL (40 games played)

Draft +3: 12 points in the NHL (in 40 games)

Draft+4: 63 points in the NHL (82 games)


Bennett:

Draft +1: Lost to injury (1 point in 1 game, 4 points in 11 playoff games in the NHL)

Draft +2: 36 points in the NHL (77 games)

Draft +3: 26 points in the NHL (81 games)

Then look at Johansen's two following contracts:

3 years, 4M per.
8 years, 8M per.

That's 6.29M AAV in the first 7 years after his ELC burned up. I stick by my guns saying that Bennett projects out better than Johansen, and that the Flames are trying to get a lengthy deal done right now in order to pay more up front, and get it cheaper on the back-end and this is what they're negotiating right now.

I feel a lot of people on CP show a serious amount of impatience towards actual player development. It's either instant success, bust, or long-term project that has infinite amounts of potential until they're inevitably a bust.

If you want to compare to Ryan Johansen...I can shed some light on this as I have followed his career ever since the Portland Winterhawks.

The reason for his breakout in his Draft + 4 year was the added ice-time, responsibility, and role that he was given as the team's #1C. That was the first year he received consistent PP1 reps.

Average TOI was 17:39.
PP was 2:36.
PK was 0:42.

So Johansen's role significantly increased. The problem with comparing his development to Bennett is the fact that you can't envision Bennett getting that kind of ice-time or role especially since he is playing behind Monahan and Backlund. Atleast not this upcoming season.

This is why it's making me wonder how the Flames see the progression of the roster. If they re-sign Backlund to an extension, then what does Bennett become? Is he slotted in as your #3C for the foreseeable future or do you start transitioning Backlund's line into more of a pure-defensive line and start playing Bennett with Tkachuk or more talented wingers and give him PP1 to start developing him on the offensive side of things.

It's a serious thought because playing Bennett with the likes of Brouwer and Chaisson isn't going to cut it for him to turn into the player that he expects to be or the player that the fans expect him to be.

Also, I've heard that he takes it to heart or gets disappointed seeing the success of those in his draft class having more opportunity and much more success early in their career such as Draisaitl, Nylander, Ehlers, Larkin, Fabbri, Pastrnak etc. That's his competitive nature.

He expected himself to be on the way to becoming an elite player in the league already.


"He hoped to be a star by now, not the Flames’ third-line centre and waiver fodder in some fantasy leagues."

http://nationalpost.com/g00/sports/h...i10c.referrer=

Flames need to roll a PP1 of Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett and Hamilton.

This is a very delicate situation.

[Samonadreau]

Has a high profile RFA ever actually held out to go play in Europe? Serious question. I call bluff or media clickbait.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by robaur

This is a very delicate situation.

I don't agree that it's delicate, but I do agree that Bennett's role on the team is crucial to his success. On the positive side of that, listening to Gulutzan talk this summer I only see his importance to the team growing. Bennett's role developed as the year progressed - he saw PK time in the latter parts of the season, and even snagged some PP time. Coming into this season, I fully expect to consistently see him on the 2nd PP unit:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Brouwer?
Brodie - Versteeg

and then:

Bennett - Backlund - Tkachuk
Giordano - Hamilton

I still think the Flames see Backlund, Monahan, and Bennett as their top 9 centres. Three lines which you roll consistently and evenly spread out the 5v5 minutes, with PP and PK time being the wildcard - and Bennett is already beginning to show a lot of promise on the PK. Being a mainstay on that 2nd PP unit is going to boost his numbers.


As a side note...ah, the Flames depth is what really excites me about this coming season. I just look at all the potential lines and I'm not looking at any one player, or any one line and going "eesh, that'll be rough". Exciting times.

[dammage79]

Theres what? two weeks left until main camp? I hope this gets done before then. Not a fan of having two consecutive contract hold ups in as many seasons. Agent and GM need to get this done stat.

[Tinordi]

As many others have stated, I don't think the sticky wicket is salary. The Bennett camp surely understands that they do not have alot of leverage in that regard. Contract term is what they're likely going for. 2 years max. That way, Sam's big payday is moved up as quickly as possible.

In the end though, the Flames' depth means that they are holding all the cards. They don't *need* Bennett on the opening day roster to succeed. They have enough forward depth to get by. So if it means that they leave Bennett on the vine then so be it. Bennett has every incentive (besides maximizing his career earnings) to hit the ice in training and to be a contributor of a (hopefully) winning team.

So it really all comes down to Bennett and how confident he is that he will break out this season. The Flames are going to be unwilling to budge provided they don't limp out of the gate.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Seems like his agent is getting desperate and trying a Hail Mary to get the fans riled up to put pressure on the club to cave.

This just doesn't work in a cap environment. For the most part, fans don't want the club to cave. They don't want a bad contract, because bad contracts make it harder for the team to win. A better deal for the team is generally aligned with what the fans want. This strategy will more or less always backfire.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Meh, it is the business side of hockey. No need for people to start smearing Bennett's name and calling him arrogant and so on. We are not privy to any sides of the negotiations. Treliving is starting to be known as a tough negotiator, and sometimes it takes more time. I don't see any reason to be filled with any feelings of anger or disappointment at any of the parties involved. We simply do not have any clue as to what is being offered by either side, so how on earth can we really have an opinion other than "hope it gets done!".

With that being said, it isn't the end of the world even if Bennett goes and plays in Europe for a while. As others have mentioned, this leaves the door open for Jankowski and Lazar to come in and fill the void that Bennett leaves.

Let's just all take a deep breath here before going off.

Edit: Also 'boo' on all of you for the lack of "He really is Doug Gilmour!" jokes.

One final thing to add is that Bennett will also handcuff himself in negotiations somewhat by going to Europe. Why? Because he can then cross-off the nuclear threat: "Trade me". He would have to pass through waivers for another team to add him to their roster. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the case? Or is it just for signings (like offer-sheets?).

[bax]

Any chance that this is less about the actual contact and more about opportunity? You'd have to think Bennett wants a chance to play with some top 6 players and get some power play time.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Has a high profile RFA ever actually held out to go play in Europe? Serious question. I call bluff or media clickbait.

Flames fans should obviously still remember Ryan O'Reilly...

[GranteedEV]

Some time playing #1C in the SHL wouldn't be the worst thing for Bennett's development.

[browna]

By the agent negotiation textbook, 1st day after a long weekend get your national media schill to float out the state of negotiations. Though playing the “overseas” card is pretty ridiculous...does anyone seeing Sam going to Sweden or the KHL to “stay in shape”?

[Par]

Originally Posted by bax

Any chance that this is less about the actual contact and more about opportunity? You'd have to think Bennett wants a chance to play with some top 6 players and get some power play time.

This is what I think, he knows that the ship with all the money has sailed.

[TheScorpion]

I don't think that the ship that you're referring to ever existed, Par. I think it'd be more like a water dinghy.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Has a high profile RFA ever actually held out to go play in Europe? Serious question. I call bluff or media clickbait.

Wouldn't say high profile at the time, but Gio went to Russia when he couldn't get a 1-way deal here.

[AC]

I'm not worried st this point simply because Bennett can't afford to miss time to start the year.

Jankowski and Foo are pushing for a spot and Bennett needs a good start and a breakout year at this point.