Cliff at no point did I say that I was proud of what 21 yr old UCB would have done, I was just being honest.
Sure, I get that. For some people, it will depend on how broke they are. For others it won't.
There are extremely poor places in the world where crime is very low. These issues are really about social cohesion. How much people think about the strangers around them as we rather than they.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I've never found a wallet, but I had an opportunity to keep an extra 50k once. And 25k once. The fifty was a mortgage on a guy's farm. I'd never met him. He paid me back, through a broker but the broker never removed my name from title. He died shortly after and his estate sent me another check. His family didn't know he paid me. No body knew. I sent the money back and for my troubles, the estate wouldn't cover my legal bill even though it was in the loan agreement that he would pay all legal bills. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth but I still had no moral choice but to give it back.
The 25k was from a condo I sold. It had a different title to the parking stall and neither the buyer nor I noticed. It was a private sale so no realtors to catch the error. Three years later I noticed my account was billed for the property tax on the stall. The person I sold it to had sold the condo to someone else. Those stalls are hugely valuable. I contacted the new owner and handed over the title. I made him pay for the legal bill though. That was a fairly tempting bonus to keep.
Sure, I get that. For some people, it will depend on how broke they are. For others it won't.
There are extremely poor places in the world where crime is very low. These issues are really about social cohesion. How much people think about the strangers around them as we rather than they.
Where are these poor low crime places (this isn't in jest).
Most places I have been with abject poverty has high crime rates. But those places also have extreme wealth as well, For example South Africa, a high divides shanty towns and mansions.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
I've never found a wallet, but I had an opportunity to keep an extra 50k once. And 25k once. The fifty was a mortgage on a guy's farm. I'd never met him. He paid me back, through a broker but the broker never removed my name from title. He died shortly after and his estate sent me another check. His family didn't know he paid me. No body knew. I sent the money back and for my troubles, the estate wouldn't cover my legal bill even though it was in the loan agreement that he would pay all legal bills. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth but I still had no moral choice but to give it back.
The 25k was from a condo I sold. It had a different title to the parking stall and neither the buyer nor I noticed. It was a private sale so no realtors to catch the error. Three years later I noticed my account was billed for the property tax on the stall. The person I sold it to had sold the condo to someone else. Those stalls are hugely valuable. I contacted the new owner and handed over the title. I made him pay for the legal bill though. That was a fairly tempting bonus to keep.
Hey, look at me! I didn't commit a crime!!! Aren't I the honest guy!
You deserve a pat on the back for that!
Returning money that does not belong to you and would result in criminal prosecution had you kept it and been found out - which was still possible in both the instances you provided - is hardly the same as finding a wallet and not returning it.
Uh, what? The second one would obviously not have been a "crime". I doubt the first one would have been, either.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Hey, look at me! I didn't commit a crime!!! Aren't I the honest guy!
You deserve a pat on the back for that!
Returning money that does not belong to you and would result in criminal prosecution had you kept it and been found out - which was still possible in both the instances you provided - is hardly the same as finding a wallet and not returning it.
I don't mind the discussion, but it seems a few people are not happy with the amount of honest people here and keep trying to find the point where we would steal.
"...what if you found a million dollars...?" or saying our responses are only because we don't want to appear sketchy on a message board.
the point is, if we found a wallet with $500 and wouldn't get caught, the majority of people would of course think it would be nice to have the money, but wouldn't take it. it's stealing and it's wrong. (and depending what you believe, karma would get you)
not saying my history is snow white, but I'm not going to steal money from someone.
In real life I would say the vast majority of people I've had business dealings with fall into the "B" category.
It does not surprise me that there is a majority of people that are honest, and it also does not surprise me that there are a non-trivial number of people that are not.
In real life I would say the vast majority of people I've had business dealings with fall into the "B" category.
It does not surprise me that there is a majority of people that are honest, and it also does not surprise me that there are a non-trivial number of people that are not.
I'm thinking a coupl eof people are taking the view that while the majority of people are decent and honest, the generally honest people would commit a crime of opportunity. be it a wallet, a drunk girl at a party, keeping goods from a store that didn't get rung in. whatever it is.
So receiving and keeping proceeds knowingly received in error from a real estate transaction is legal? Is that the finders/keepers law?
AMNAL but that sounds like fraud to me.
You're a lawyer I believe. Would your advice to a client bringing a similar issue to you would be shut up and keep the money?
What is criminal and what is legal are two very different things, first of all. As are what is criminal and what a lawyer would advise their client to do. Second, I'm not sure if it is fraud, because you're not taking any deceitful action, merely passively receiving funds you know you're not entitled to. It might be, but it's not at all clear to me. Third, I'm not a criminal lawyer.
Meanwhile, his second example is obviously not fraud. So regardless, your comment, which was, "Hey, look at me! I didn't commit a crime! Aren't I the honest guy!" was, at a minimum, pretty far over the top.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I'm thinking a coupl eof people are taking the view that while the majority of people are decent and honest, the generally honest people would commit a crime of opportunity. be it a wallet, a drunk girl at a party, keeping goods from a store that didn't get rung in. whatever it is.
Researchers dropped 20 wallets and purses in each of five British cities -- London, Birmingham, Cardiff, Glasgow and Leeds -- earlier this summer. Each wallet or purse contained £10 ($15.60), a photograph, tickets, receipts and business cards that linked the item to the research team. The "drops" were made at shopping centers, museums, cafes, parking garages, and on the street and public transportation, CPP said.
Only 20 percent of the wallets and purses were returned, and only 55 percent of those contained the original sum of money, CPP said.
Of the 20 wallets dropped, 15 have been returned so far. We're trying to reach two additional callers who left messages before this story went to press.
The exercise yielded some surprising results. For one, honesty is different than goodness. Goodness is bigger. It's going out of one's way to return that lost item. It's empathizing with someone you've never met.
The Following User Says Thank You to OMG!WTF! For This Useful Post:
"I was walking down Fifth Avenue today and I found a wallet, and I was gonna keep it, rather than return it, but I thought: "Well, if I lost a hundred and fifty dollars, how would I feel?"
And I realized I would want to be taught a lesson."
What is criminal and what is legal are two very different things, first of all. As are what is criminal and what a lawyer would advise their client to do. Second, I'm not sure if it is fraud, because you're not taking any deceitful action, merely passively receiving funds you know you're not entitled to. It might be, but it's not at all clear to me. Third, I'm not a criminal lawyer.
Meanwhile, his second example is obviously not fraud. So regardless, your comment, which was, "Hey, look at me! I didn't commit a crime! Aren't I the honest guy!" was, at a minimum, pretty far over the top.
Over the top? For suggesting keeping $50K or $25K or $75K from a business transaction when you KNOW is not yours is illegal? Wow.
As I stated, IANAL but it seems to me like you're splitting hairs. I'll take you're word for it. It seems really important to you that you be right on this question.
As I stated, IANAL but it seems to me like you're splitting hairs. I'll take you're word for it. It seems really important to you that you be right on this question.
Hah, okay. I'll have you know it's far more important to me that people not post "you're" when they mean "your".
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
