Charlottesville VA - WTF???

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by psyang

Yeah, co-founder Brian Lilley and commentator Barbara Kay have quit The Rebel as well.

Caolan Robertson just posted a video about him and his producer being fired.

[transplant99]

Truth is i have no problem with them making arrests.

There is a way to take these things down/have them moved without breaking the law. If they just allow anyone to remove anything they want, (that is not their property) without prosecution they are opening a can of worms no one wants to go down.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Minnie

People who are turning themselves in saying they took part in the "crime" of removing statues of the schmucks that give the Alt-Reich warm fuzzies.

"I am Spartacus"

I mean, it was an actual crime, destruction of public property. People have been charged.

And schmucks? Im wary of treating every memorial to Confederate soldiers this way, hundreds of thousands of young men died in an awful war that wasn't their fault. You may not like it but a lot of people lost family members, loved ones. That statue was built in the 20's, when the war was still in living memory for a lot of people, and maybe it's a racist dog whistle to some but I have to think there was a least a few people at that statue unveiling that lost a cherished family member in a brutal war. To me that's pretty disrespectful.

[Minnie]

Yes, it's awful. I'm crying.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

I mean, it was an actual crime, destruction of public property. People have been charged.

And schmucks? Im wary of treating every memorial to Confederate soldiers this way, hundreds of thousands of young men died in an awful war that wasn't their fault. You may not like it but a lot of people lost family members, loved ones. That statue was built in the 20's, when the war was still in living memory for a lot of people, and maybe it's a racist dog whistle to some but I have to think there was a least a few people at that statue unveiling that lost a cherished family member in a brutal war. To me that's pretty disrespectful.

Sure it's against the law. The people that did it knew that for sure. It's civil disobedience by people that are willing to pay the price. They are on the wrong side of the law, but the right side of history.

[DiracSpike]

Oh stop man they're not heroes. They defaced public property and now they're trying to have a Spartacus moment at the courthouse since they have nothing better to do on a thursday afternoon.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Oh stop man they're not heroes. They defaced public property and now they're trying to have a Spartacus moment at the courthouse since they have nothing better to do on a thursday afternoon.

Of all the things worth commenting on right now, citizens dismantling racist memorials is so far down my list that I simply do not care at all.

Good for them.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Truth is i have no problem with them making arrests.

There is a way to take these things down/have them moved without breaking the law. If they just allow anyone to remove anything they want, (that is not their property) without prosecution they are opening a can of worms no one wants to go down.

Yeah, the authorities have a job to do. Which is largely why the I am Spartacus act is happening - in the hope of making a successful prosecution all but impossible. Failing that, it could be considered the kind of case you'd hope for jury nullification.

[DiracSpike]

Once they're done at the courthouse they can organize a group trip to Normandy and stop anti-semitism by defacing the German graveyard there.

I'm all for getting rid of overtly racist memorials through the proper channels.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Once they're done at the courthouse they can organize a group trip to Normandy and stop anti-semitism by defacing the German graveyard there.

I'm all for getting rid of overtly racist memorials through the proper channels.

Seriously? That's fracking absurd. What a strange hill to die on.

[Matata]

Europe is filled with statues of people who would be utterly reprehensible in the context of modern cultural standards. I don't think anyone would argue that Europe would be better off if they removed those statues.

The South lost, they know they lost, I don't see why they have to have to be scrubbed from history because people want to dumb down the civil war to "cuz racism".

[Coach]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Once they're done at the courthouse they can organize a group trip to Normandy and stop anti-semitism by defacing the German graveyard there.

I'm all for getting rid of overtly racist memorials through the proper channels.

Yeah, the problem is Germans aren't marching with Nazi flags anymore.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Once they're done at the courthouse they can organize a group trip to Normandy and stop anti-semitism by defacing the German graveyard there.

I'm all for getting rid of overtly racist memorials through the proper channels.

When the Nazis start making pilgrimages to Normandy and causing riots, then we can have that discussion.

That's going to be difficult, given France and Germany don't exactly offer a ton of grey area when it comes to Nazis.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Truth is i have no problem with them making arrests.

There is a way to take these things down/have them moved without breaking the law. If they just allow anyone to remove anything they want, (that is not their property) without prosecution they are opening a can of worms no one wants to go down.

Nice argument except the decision to remove the Robert E Lee statue was done 'legally', yet look what happened.

Maybe if we just ignored this acts of civil disobedience instead of giving them the publicity they seek, that would solve the problem. Just ignore it.

Am I doing it right?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Nice argument except the decision to remove the Robert E Lee statue was done 'legally', yet look what happened.

Maybe if we just ignored this acts of civil disobedience instead of giving them the publicity they seek, that would solve the problem. Just ignore it.

Am I doing it right?

No idea what you are talking about..as usual.

The statue in Charlottesville wasn't being removed because an injunction to stop it from happening was granted...you know...through the courts. Which is why it is still standing in the same spot today.

As for what I and most able readers here are talking about is what happened in Raleigh/Durham. There was a statue was taken down/destroyed by people who had no legal right to do so, and now a bunch of people are all lining up to claim responsibility in an effort to obfuscate prosecution.

Morally they may be doing the right thing. Legally they most certainly are not as that can open a whole big can of worms if they are not at least charged with a crime.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Matata

Europe is filled with statues of people who would be utterly reprehensible in the context of modern cultural standards. I don't think anyone would argue that Europe would be better off if they removed those statues.

The South lost, they know they lost, I don't see why they have to have to be scrubbed from history because people want to dumb down the civil war to "cuz racism".

To say it dumbing down the civil was to say "cuz racism" is trying to play up the teachings and myths it wasn't about slavery and racism. It absolutely was. The original documents of the confederacy very clearly show the major reasons concerned the institution of slavery and white supremacy.

It was only after the war where the writings from confederacy supporters started to turn to the "it was about other things" story.

Now I will say this the teachings at school have concentrated on state rights being the issue but let's take that with a grain of salt given the culture that has been present in the US and realize not all may be represented as it should. It's changing, but by and large it has been bad scholarship that has been promoted by a population that refuses to wholly address their prejudices. And this shouldn't be a surprise. The civil rights movement with MLK wasn't so long ago in this country. It continues to this very day. People of different races and religions are not looked at as being equal by a large chunk of the white, mostly evangelical populace in this country. You have one party still actively trying to disenfranchise black voters every chance they get.

It was about racism and continues to be about racism.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Once they're done at the courthouse they can organize a group trip to Normandy and stop anti-semitism by defacing the German graveyard there.

I'm all for getting rid of overtly racist memorials through the proper channels.

Are you quite finished being a comic book character yet?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No idea what you are talking about..as usual.

The statue in Charlottesville wasn't being removed because an injunction to stop it from happening was granted...you know...through the courts. Which is why it is still standing in the same spot today.

As for what I and most able readers here are talking about is what happened in Raleigh/Durham. There was a statue was taken down/destroyed by people who had no legal right to do so, and now a bunch of people are all lining up to claim responsibility in an effort to obfuscate prosecution.

Morally they may be doing the right thing. Legally they most certainly are not as that can open a whole big can of worms if they are not at least charged with a crime.

You're assuming they won't be charged. They're not trying to obfuscate prosecution, they're actually doing the opposite. If they all admit they conspired to or took part in destruction of public property, it should make the prosecutor's job quite easy.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No idea what you are talking about..as usual.

No idea what I'm talking about? Maybe that's not surprising with your recent disclosure in the What Makes You Afraid thread and all but I guess I have to remind you that once you got past arguing that the white supremacists represented just a few bad apples, you suggested the best approach was for the world to poke it's collective heads in the sand and ignore White Nationalists and they'll go away.

I say let em march and just ignore them. They crave attention...don't give it to them.

Nothing occurred overnight because of the curfew, which brings me back to one of the original points. If no one opposed them and just let them march to the statue so they could stand around yelling for no one but themselves to hear...a lot of damage and carnage could have been avoided. The media wouldn't bother covering for a second so the attention whores would be bereft of what they crave so much. I think there is a lesson in that moving forward.

I still believe strongly however, that if you don't give groups like this the attention they seek, their message and act takes a massive hit. Seeing their "buddies" splattered all over CNN, Fox, CBS etc, is precisely what they crave. It's the only time they are of any relevance.

If your advice is to not give any attention to the alt-right white nationalists, surely the same advice applies to dealing with counter protestors. Don't give them any attention and they'll stop doing it!

Does that clear things up for you?

Originally Posted by transplant99

As for what I and most able readers here are talking about is what happened in Raleigh/Durham. There was a statue was taken down/destroyed by people who had no legal right to do so, and now a bunch of people are all lining up to claim responsibility in an effort to obfuscate prosecution.

Morally they may be doing the right thing. Legally they most certainly are not as that can open a whole big can of worms if they are not at least charged with a crime.

Maybe you're talking about statues being removed in Raleigh/Durham, most posters are talking about the REAL issue - being white nationalism and the tolerance Trump, his advisors and supporters show them.

[rubecube]

If there's one thing that's overturned power structures and systems of oppression in the past, it's definitely been acting obediently and deferential to the laws and authority figures perpetuating them.