American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[photon]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

How do you know what was on those emails?

In some cases I'm going with what they themselves claimed, others I never made a claim about the content. In all cases I don't care, I'm not making a case about hypocrisy.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Oh come on, at least I'm adding a little fun and life to this echo chamber. It's all theatre and most of you guys take this stuff way to seriously.

It was down to either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump as POTUS. That speaks volumes to how bad the state of governance is in the free world.

People are concerned with Trump, rightly imo, in that he is causing substantial damage to the institutions that form the bedrock of american democracy...

constantly calling out the legitimacy of the press, simply because Trump doesn't like what is being printed, diminishes that institution, not only during Trump's, hopefully short lived, administration, but also for all future Presidents... i won't even mention the debacle that is the daily press briefings...

You speak of hypocrisy? Just look at the way the GOP has tried ramming through Trumpcare... all the criticisms leveled at Obama 8 years ago is minuscule compared to the GOP cynical attempt to take away healthcare for 10s of millions of americans...in order to do what? Give out huge tax cuts to the rich?

Hiring and political appointments for people that aren't even qualified for their jobs?

the man constantly, demonstrably, lies... and not even about important things... about frivolous things... This is the President of the United States and he puts out a lie a day. While they might not be 'big' lies, the sheer number is alarming...If he would lie about something as petty as crowd size, what would he not lie about?

People treat this seriously, because it should be treated seriously...if only for selfish reasons based on the possible repercussions Trump might cause as a result of renegotiating NAFTA...
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[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by photon

Not having the evidence laid out in front of us doesn't mean there hasn't been smoke; there's been plenty of it, enough to warrant further investigation, and that's just the stuff we know about and that they've publicly admitted to.

The difference is I haven't made a conclusion about Trump yet, and I am willing to accept alternatives for the smoke.

Seth Rich promoters have their conclusion and work to find evidence for it.

BS You are like the #1 peddler of this Russia narrative and likely in the top 3 most active in this thread. Oh there's plenty of smoke is there?????? Now don't you sound like a bit of a conspiracy theorist.

Well let's see how this investigation goes..... I know what outcome you are clearly fishing for.

Who knows what happened with Seth Rich.

[Illuminaughty]

"People are concerned with Trump, rightly imo, in that he is causing substantial damage to the institutions that form the bedrock of american democracy..."

Well isn't that the point. He is divisive amongst his own party who can't stand him, he's almost like a double agent. The Trump phenomenon is actually pretty simple. Lot's of people were fed up with the system and thought politics was rigged and it didn't matter.... Que Trump, he shows that an outsider can win the nomination and in turn win the presidency...... A crude reality TV star ffs. That must mean the system works if it couldn't filter out that guy, and thus people started participating and fueling this great divide that we are experiencing in the politics right now. I've never seen people so divided even in this country over who the POTUS is.

Bottom line is both parties are corrupt and beholden to their donors (big buiss). It's all theatre to make you feel like you have a choice and participate. Pepsi or coke. You might like the red can more but at the end of the day you're still drinking crappy sugary water.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

"People are concerned with Trump, rightly imo, in that he is causing substantial damage to the institutions that form the bedrock of american democracy..."

Well isn't that the point. He is divisive amongst his own party who can't stand him, he's almost like a double agent. The Trump phenomenon is actually pretty simple. Lot's of people were fed up with the system and thought politics was rigged and it didn't matter.... Que Trump, he shows that an outsider can win the nomination and in turn win the presidency...... A crude reality TV star ffs. That must mean the system works if it couldn't filter out that guy, and thus people started participating and fueling this great divide that we are experiencing in the politics right now. I've never seen people so divided even in this country over who the POTUS is.

Bottom line is both parties are corrupt and beholden to their donors (big buiss). It's all theatre to make you feel like you have a choice and participate. Pepsi or coke. You might like the red can more but at the end of the day your still drinking crappy sugary water.

the fact that he did win, should have demonstrated that the American election system wasn't rigged and that was simply a line by Trump to feed those that feel disenfranchised to vote for him... it was a ploy, gamesmanship to appeal to populist voters.

Is there special interests in governments? absolutely there is... while i see Obamacare, for all its faults, as Obama's greatest victory, I see his failure to pursue campaign finance reform as his greatest failure.

you don't fix the system by blowing it up... There's a reason that Freedom of the Press was the first amendment: it was meant to hold government, and its presidents, to account.... Trump doesn't like the press because it challenges him and his dictatorial tendencies.

the Drain the Swamp slogan was populist drivel... just look at his appointments and who is running the administration...how many Goldman Sachs executives work for Trump? Ironic, considering the drum beat during the campaign was how Hillary was too cozy with Wall Street...

Its stupefying that a portion of his base is so dogmatic, or flat out dumb, to buy into that when he runs the least transparent administration in the last century....I'll bet that history will judge it as the biggest kleptocracy in the history of modern western democracies.
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[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I'm not a Trump supporter but I'd gladly one on one you any day in Geo politics. I'm a little outnumbered in this hug box but we could take it to qallout?

Well you can claim you're "not a Trump supporter" if you'd like but...you share the views and opinions of a Trump supporter. And not just a supporter either....like the cultists. I haven't seen one view of yours yet that differs from them. So maybe you're embarrassed because Trump is a debacle who will never get anything done, but you certainly have the views (and approach) that resembles what we see in the cult.

Also I'm not gonna reply to this. You are an exceptional troll, no doubt about it. Which is why I don't get why anyone wastes their time with you when your end game is obvious. Still impressive though.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Of course if it hasn't been clear that Trump is about grifting more than Presidenting, well yeah here's further proof

The Secret Service has vacated its command post inside Trump Tower in Manhattan following a dispute between the government and President Trump’s company over the terms of a lease for the space, according to two people familiar with the discussions.

Previously, the Secret Service had stationed its command post — which houses supervisors and backup agents on standby in case of an emergency — in a Trump Tower unit one floor below the president’s apartment.

But in early July, the post was relocated to a trailer on the sidewalk, more than 50 floors below, a distance that some security experts worry could hamper the agency that protects the president’s home and family.

The command post appears unlikely to move anytime soon back inside Trump Tower, where the president and his family have rarely gone since moving to the White House.

On Thursday, a spokeswoman for the Trump Organization said the government should seek space in another location.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.6c574d78cf14

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

What, the Hillary campaigns alleged connections with foreign entities including Russia and the Ukraine........ Where in the blue @$#% is all the outrage?????

Examples? Links please.

There is no outrage because most of the examples being thrown out are totally bogus, have weak connections, or counter to what intelligence agencies have stated. There are nothing but conspiracy theories over emails - with no evidence - and complete lies over uranium deals that Clinton had no part in, other than the State Department being one of nine federal agencies who had to give approval to the deal. The smoke is coming from a cigarette in the ashtray.

Conversely, Trump has direct connections to Russians with shady backgrounds, and direct links to the Kremlin. Trump has direct links to Russian organized crime. Most importantly, Trump received great benefit from these relationships and interactions and Clinton was damaged by them. There just isn't smoke here, there are flames bursting from the windows of Trump Tower.

Now, back to you.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Trump's last day before his 2 week vacation. As people say, there's an old tweet of his for everything.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I'm not a Trump supporter but I'd gladly one on one you any day in Geo politics. I'm a little outnumbered in this hug box but we could take it to qallout?

Sure, Just like you challenged me to an open debate, which lasted all of one post. You ascribe to the worst conspiracy theories and accept innuendo and falsehoods from the worst sources as fact. There is the problem in trying to engage you in any meaningful way. You don't recognize or accept facts when someone beats you over the head with them.

Clinton was investigated for the email garbage and was cleared of any wrong doing. The uranium story is all conspiracy theory and proven to be bull#### time and time again. The Seth Rich story was fabricated from word one, and there are lawsuits taking place as a result. All investigation into this event has proven nothing other than it was a mugging gone wrong. But you still hang on to these tired tropes and repeat the same falsehoods over and over. Meanwhile, in Trumplandia, the FBI has called a Grand Jury as the evidence continues to mount. The NY State AG has a parallel investigation going on, launched before the FBI's, and has Trump for connections to organized crime. But Hillary, her emails, uranium, Seth Rich, and other fallacies is your defense.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

BS You are like the #1 peddler of this Russia narrative and likely in the top 3 most active in this thread. Oh there's plenty of smoke is there?????? Now don't you sound like a bit of a conspiracy theorist.

Actually that works the other way, conspiracy theorists work to sound like normal people.

The difference is no one is investigating Clinton for murdering Seth Rich. No one reasonably looks at any of the "evidence" and thinks "there's something worth checking out there". Because the "evidence" is all wishful thinking and unanswered questions and "connections" and logical fallacies.

The Russia "narrative" on the other hand has actual events that prompt further investigation. People that have worked on previous campaigns, from Obama to Bushes to Clintons have all said the amount of attention and interaction with Russia that is known about was without president. People from the campaign failed to disclose many meetings with Russians, repeatedly. Some lied to Congress about it. Some lied to the FBI about it. Some were fired for it, some had to recuse themselves from matters related to it. The campaign openly admits attempting to establish communication via secured Russian channels (again without president). The campaign openly admits to attempting to gain advantage with the help of the Russian government. And more. The House, the Senate and the FBI all saw enough to warrant inclusion of Trump campaign activities in their respective investigations into Russia's actions in trying to influence the election.

The only guy investigating the conspiracy theories are guys with guns arrested and jailed for shooting in a pizza place. The only people who think Clinton sold uranium to Russia are those who want to think it so avoid learning any more about it.

But because you have your conclusions already, based on what you want to think and the "evidence" cooked up by The_Donald (omg this guy appears in a photo with that guy, he must be related to the murder!!), you see posting new information as "peddling".

But go ahead, quote me where I've made a conclusion. You can't because I haven't. I've made my prediction, and that doesn't include Trump knowingly colluding himself.

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Well let's see how this investigation goes..... I know what outcome you are clearly fishing for.

That you think you can fish for a conclusion just exposes the "reasoning" process behind "Clinton brokered a uranium sale" conclusions.

I'm hoping for a conclusion that will reduce or remove Trump's power and influence, but what I hope for doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Who knows what happened with Seth Rich.

Could have been a botched robbery. Could have been Clinton. Could have been a heart attack induced by a Podesta satanic ritual. All possibilities must be considered.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

It would be amazing if any of those disgruntled White House staffers started leaving copies of that around for Trump to stumble upon

[photon]

Colbert rewrites the poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty (which was added later according to the Trump administration).

“Give me your wealthy, your rich, your huddled MBAs yearning to be tax-free. Send these, the English-speaking, fully-insured to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door and lift my leg upon your filthy poor. P.S. No fatties please,”

[GirlySports]

Again I get uncomfortable when media (news outlets and comedy shows) go this far. That Newsweek cover is overreaching.
Yeah Trump is a problem and the media should point that out. But this just enrages the right even more.

[jayswin]

I have a really good feeling that this will be the time we engage Illuminaughty and instead of ruining the thread we actually get through to him. It wasn't the other times, therefore it has to be this time!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by photon

Colbert rewrites the poem on the base of the Statue of Liberty (which was added later according to the Trump administration).

“Give me your wealthy, your rich, your huddled MBAs yearning to be tax-free. Send these, the English-speaking, fully-insured to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door and lift my leg upon your filthy poor. P.S. No fatties please,”

Or send me the same type of people you send Canada.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Again I get uncomfortable when media (news outlets and comedy shows) go this far. That Newsweek cover is overreaching.
Yeah Trump is a problem and the media should point that out. But this just enrages the right even more.

Who cares at this point, let them fume up and claim that "this is why Trump won!!".

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Who cares at this point, let them fume up and claim that "this is why Trump won!!".

It could affect future elections at all levels. "Hating elites" is always a rallying cry at any point in history. The GOP already controls a lot.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It could affect future elections at all levels. "Hating elites" is always a rallying cry at any point in history. The GOP already controls a lot.

They don't hate elites.. they hate people that aren't "their elites".

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Who cares at this point, let them fume up and claim that "this is why Trump won!!".

I think there still is value in showing a certain amount of respect to the institution of the president.

We have seen from Trumps behaviour how much of governance is based on the respect of processes that aren't law. This type of cover pushes that disrespect
Of institutions further. It encourages the losers next time to focus on winning at all costs. It might be idealist but the press should do better.