American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by GGG

What?

Merit based is way superior. The best educated with points for already know the language is the way to ensure the best immigrant outcomes.

Its not a xenophobic policy.

Sure, but what next? Health care and gun control like Canada and Australia?
He's doing this for an easy win with his base, and when it comes to Trump, yes, there is an xenophobic angle to it.
They took er jawbs.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

US switches to merit based immigration system.
Winning with xenophobia.

To be fair, merit based immigration policy is the Canadian system.
Canadian immigrants with highly desire skills and vocations are given precedents over the family entry claims. Additional "points" awarded based on English/French language, age, and other demographic factors make up the score officials use to process your eligibility. It's a pretty cold system, but it helps ensure that Canada gets the benefit of accepting and receiving immigrants and eventually new citizens.

LChoy

[troutman]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So, yeah. Why am I not surprised at all?

Daniel Dale‏@ddale8
Trump lied about the BOY SCOUTS. A senior Scouts source says there was no call at all, let alone a call telling him his speech was the best.

Trump also proclaimed:

“As you know, the border was a tremendous problem and they’re close to 80 percent stoppage. And even the president of Mexico called me — they said their southern border, very few people are coming because they know they’re not going to get through our border, which is the ultimate compliment.”

Nieto denies that ever happened, releasing a statement that said he “has not recently spoken to President Donald Trump over the telephone.”


https://medium.com/@TrumpTimer/day-1...n-daa8cb396fa6

[GirlySports]

Canada quietly has a very strict immigration system unlike in the States where this is getting all the media attention and is considered racist.

Canada doesn't even allow sibling sponsorship and parents were stopped for a few years but I think that line is moving again.

[darockwilder]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Did anyone watch? Lol.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/08...ara-trump/amp/

Pretty awesome, I don't need to follow any news sources any more now. Just watch my weekly 2 minute "real news" update. I especially enjoy the frequent cuts utilized. Talk for 10 seconds, cut, talk for 10 more, cut, even though she's just sitting in front of a static camera.

It's quite similar to Real News Tonight on Colbert, perhaps Jill Newslady was an inspiration to Lara...

[GordonBlue]

nm.
wrong thread

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by troutman

Trump also proclaimed:

“As you know, the border was a tremendous problem and they’re close to 80 percent stoppage. And even the president of Mexico called me — they said their southern border, very few people are coming because they know they’re not going to get through our border, which is the ultimate compliment.”

Nieto denies that ever happened, releasing a statement that said he “has not recently spoken to President Donald Trump over the telephone.”


https://medium.com/@TrumpTimer/day-1...n-daa8cb396fa6

This is the kind of stuff that Kelly should put an end too... whether he can is another stuff...

Trump's base basically believes everything he says and dismisses everyone else as lying... It really is a weird cultist mindset...

In for a penny, in for a pound is the only way i can figure it...

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Canada quietly has a very strict immigration system unlike in the States where this is getting all the media attention and is considered racist.

Canada doesn't even allow sibling sponsorship and parents were stopped for a few years but I think that line is moving again.

They do have a strict immigration policy, based on merit... at the same time, the metric for what that level of merit is may be quite different than the US, even if they operate using the same type of system.

i think the difference still resides in the philosophical differences with respect to immigration.

What I mean by that is that Canada takes in 300, 000 immigrants per year, almost 1% of our total population, as cited in one of the articles below. That's the highest percentage in the world - despite the merit system in place... by definition, that's the furthest thing from xenophobia, even if we are using a merit system to vet immigrants...And with respect to racism, we don't deny applicants from any country as far as i know, so long as they meet that standard that all applicants need to meet, be it from Ireland or Syria

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...the-us/488534/

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/26/511625609/for-a-stark-contrast-to-u-s-immigration-policy-try-canada

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...ration-policy/

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

They do have a strict immigration policy, based on merit... at the same time, the metric for what that level of merit is may be quite different than the US, even if they operate using the same type of system.

i think the difference still resides in the philosophical differences with respect to immigration.

What I mean by that is that Canada takes in 300, 000 immigrants per year, almost 1% of our total population, as cited in one of the articles below. That's the highest percentage in the world - despite the merit system in place... by definition, that's the furthest thing from xenophobia, even if we are using a merit system to vet immigrants...And with respect to racism, we don't deny applicants from any country as far as i know, so long as they meet that standard that all applicants need to meet, be it from Ireland or Syria

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...the-us/488534/

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/26/511625609/for-a-stark-contrast-to-u-s-immigration-policy-try-canada

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...ration-policy/

This is a very interesting topic. Canada may take in the most immigrants but that doesn't mean everyone's happy about it. I read a poll that says that 25% of Canadians would favor a Muslim ban. That may sound like a lot but not surprising if you hear the banter around my office. It must be much higher in Alberta.

What happens if this number grows? Who is the Trump-like figure of Canada who would capitalize on this? Kelly Leitch may have shown her cards too early. Ten years from now who knows.

I believe this is what happened in the states. The Democrats went left, we all know that. The GOP is stuck in their ways when it comes to issues like taxes and abortion, we all know that as well. But for immigration the two parties are not that far apart. Republicans have tried to reform immigration in the past. Closest recent attempt was the Bush-Reid bill in 2007.

But as everyone tries to be more inclusive and reform immigration, they move away from a part of the population who are against immigration. In that States that's probably close to 40%.

There is a winner and loser in everything and as the Democrats (and Republicans too) move America towards a more liberal and inclusive country, they leave the losers behind. Those dumb, ignorant, racists hicks we all laugh at. Well laugh at them enough and someone will come in and fill that void. That's Trump. And today he's got Senate Republicans at his mercy, passing a slashing of legal immigration bill that they would never sign normally.

[Fuzz]

You can get 25% of people to agree to a ban on anything. I could probably try to get snipes banned, and could get at least 25% of people to support that idea. People are dumb.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think the only thing Trump did in the last two years that rated below 25% approval was mocking the disabled reporter. So other than mocking the disabled yeah you can probably find 25% of people who believe virtually anything.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

This is a very interesting topic. Canada may take in the most immigrants but that doesn't mean everyone's happy about it. I read a poll that says that 25% of Canadians would favor a Muslim ban. That may sound like a lot but not surprising if you hear the banter around my office. It must be much higher in Alberta.

What happens if this number grows? Who is the Trump-like figure of Canada who would capitalize on this? Kelly Leitch may have shown her cards too early. Ten years from now who knows.

I believe this is what happened in the states. The Democrats went left, we all know that. The GOP is stuck in their ways when it comes to issues like taxes and abortion, we all know that as well. But for immigration the two parties are not that far apart. Republicans have tried to reform immigration in the past. Closest recent attempt was the Bush-Reid bill in 2007.

But as everyone tries to be more inclusive and reform immigration, they move away from a part of the population who are against immigration. In that States that's probably close to 40%.

There is a winner and loser in everything and as the Democrats (and Republicans too) move America towards a more liberal and inclusive country, they leave the losers behind. Those dumb, ignorant, racists hicks we all laugh at. Well laugh at them enough and someone will come in and fill that void. That's Trump. And today he's got Senate Republicans at his mercy, passing a slashing of legal immigration bill that they would never sign normally.

well, my point in providing the references was simply to provide background on how the merit based system works in Canada.

in the states people are saying that there's a racial intent in switching to the merit system. That's not necessarily true however: the system is only as good as the input into that system.

Canada uses a mertit based system, but the actual results, ie immigrants accepted, span the gamut of races and nations. I am guessing the US's definition of "merit" would include banning some countries, or having different standards for said countries.

As for some canadians wanting a Muslim ban, I am sure there are. Thankfully, they are in the minority....It is rather ironic to me that the fact is more Muslims have been murdered in terrorist attacks by Canadians in Canada than Canadians murdered by muslims....

It is my hope that Canadians continue to judge others "by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin"... than falling victim to the rhetoric and divisive politics that have taken root down south

[chemgear]

Had to give an explanation to his boss.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Canada quietly has a very strict immigration system unlike in the States where this is getting all the media attention and is considered racist.

Canada doesn't even allow sibling sponsorship and parents were stopped for a few years but I think that line is moving again.

Parent sponsorship is terrible policy. You get people after their prime earning years and into their high cost years. And it doesn't help our demographics either.

[direwolf]

Post from Dan Rather on Facebook:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

...or not. Today a closed door is the message coming out of the White House from President Trump and some Congressional allies. They can dress it up as much as they want, but it harkens back to some of the uglier moments of our republic.

There was a time when school children would learn the words of Emma Lazarus emblazoned on the Statue of Liberty without a cloud of irony. For all the debate and demonization around illegal immigration - and it should be noted that that issue is a complicated one - what was largely uncontroversial was legal immigration.

That hasn't always been the case. From the Know Nothing Party who railed against Catholics "ruining the real America" in the mid-19th century, to the anti-semitism, anti-Asian, and all the other anti feelings after the great waves of immigration over the 19th and early 20th century, several times we have seen bigotry undermine America's destiny as a land of open opportunity.

Now of course we cannot be home to everyone, but we can be as humane as possible. We also can recognize how much immigrants have shaped our culture, powered our economy, and sparked our scientific and technical innovations.

As President Trump sees a country increasingly unified against his divisive agenda, he is reaching for one of the oldest tools in the American political playbook. Stir division. Pit people against each other. Blame others for your own problems. Like with his attacks on transgender soldiers, I think the blowback here will be strong.

I suspect Mr. Trump will couch this action by saying he is fighting for the rights of blue-collar America (which in his incarnation is mostly white). He may get some traction. We do need an open and honest debate over immigration in America, but do we really want to begin that debate with a cynical gambit such as this?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Rather has been on a role...

i think its the fundamental difference between an actual journalist versus just a talking head (as much as i like anderson cooper)...

have all the respect in the world for guys like Rather that have actually been close to the actual fire zones...

[troutman]

Trump could set the mark for his lowest net approval rating by tomorrow, currently at -24 points on Gallup (he has twice been at this level before, but has not yet broke through the magic -25 floor).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/ga...-approval.aspx

Hi is -27 today on Quinnipiac.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by troutman

Trump could set the mark for his lowest net approval rating by tomorrow, currently at -24 points on Gallup (he has twice been at this level before, but has not yet broke through the magic -25 floor).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/ga...-approval.aspx

I'm sure this will finally be what makes him lose support!

[troutman]

I'm surprised I can't find a twitter hashtag for something like #faketrumpcalls yet. Calls from famous people to Trump that are impossible.

Ex.

Neil Armstrong just called me to congratulate me on my grand plan for a mission to Mars. #faketrumpcalls

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by troutman

Trump could set the mark for his lowest net approval rating by tomorrow, currently at -24 points on Gallup (he has twice been at this level before, but has not yet broke through the magic -25 floor).

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/ga...-approval.aspx

Hi is -27 today on Quinnipiac.

If you look at the aggegate tracker on 538, every so often there's a spike in disapproval, and each time it's followed by a plateau in which Trump is not able to recover from that spike, but rather the spike becomes the new normal. It looks like we're going through another of those spikes right now.
My theory is that little by little, Trump is hitting the last straw threshold for different groups of Americans; once he hits these thresholds, he's lost some of those people for good.