Troy Brouwer

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by JFK

I like Brouwer and think he can have much better season than last but people sure are turning a broken pinky into one hell of an major excuse.

Yep, broken pinkies don't keep you from playing with any heart which he didn't do all of last season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JFK

I like Brouwer and think he can have much better season than last but people sure are turning a broken pinky into one hell of an major excuse.

The corresponding numbers are pretty compelling. Otherwise there must be a more plausible explanation for why Brouwer's and Bennett's production plummeted so precipitously right after he was injured.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Yep, broken pinkies don't keep you from playing with any heart which he didn't do all of last season.

This is so anecdotal and subjective. It is virtually meaningless.

[Vulcan]

Whereas Johnny's broken finger result.

Johnny Gaudreau has multiple points in each of the four games since his return from a broken finger.

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nhl/...ohnny-gaudreau

[AC]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is so anecdotal and subjective. It is virtually meaningless.

Yep, I hate that cliche.

He doesn't care / playing without heart / etc. It's another blanket cliche that people like to say based on absolutely nothing.

Also funny because of how many Flames players, coaches, and management specifically mention Brouwer's leadership as a large part of why the Flames turned it around last season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Whereas Johnny's broken finger result.



http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nhl/...ohnny-gaudreau

Yes. Every player responds exactly the same to every injury and recovers in an identical fashion.

[united]

Originally Posted by JFK

I like Brouwer and think he can have much better season than last but people sure are turning a broken pinky into one hell of an major excuse.

I for one am looking forward to Troy Brouwer reverting back to one of the best shooters in modern NHL history, as he was with the Flames pre-pinky injury.

The "Troy Brouwer was good pre-inury" narrative is an excellent example of confirmation bias, when in fact is was merely a hot streak (unless you truly think he's one of the best shooters in the league).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by AC

Yep, I hate that cliche...

Like I said, it is meaningless. I can concede that Brouwer possibly does not care about hockey at all, and was perfectly content to merely skate around aimlessly from Jan–Apr. But what I am absolutely certain of is that NO ONE is capable of evaluating a player's character, thoughts, motivations and effort-level from the other side of a television camera.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. Every player responds exactly the same to every injury and recovers in an identical fashion.

I think the comparison is apt because one player is a finesse player who relies on his hands while the other is a banger and crasher who can chip in on a more or less regular fashion. Guess which one is getting the broken finger excuse.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by united

I for one am looking forward to Troy Brouwer reverting back to one of the best shooters in modern NHL history, as he was with the Flames pre-pinky injury.

The "Troy Brouwer was good pre-inury" narrative is an excellent example of confirmation bias, when in fact is was merely a hot streak (unless you truly think he's one of the best shooters in the league).

You are right—Brouwer benefitted from a very high shooting percentage prior to his injury. But in the second part of the season Brouwer's shooting percentage plummeted well below his career average to 12.5%. Interestingly that number is nearly identical to his shooting percentage while playing his last season in St. Louis, which was also his lowest since 2010, and yet he still scored nearly 20 goals in 2015–16.

So, I suspect that this also does not tell the whole story. Most likely the truth is somewhere in the middle: Brouwer is not nearly as terrible as he performed in the second half of last year, and the return from injury probably played a part in that. Brouwer's offensive production is probably not as good as he was in the first half of the season, although it is probably still closer to his career average than it is to his total output from just last year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think the comparison is apt because one player is a finesse player who relies on his hands while the other is a banger and crasher who can chip in on a more or less regular fashion. Guess which one is getting the broken finger excuse.

And you would be wrong about that in the absence of knowing the particulars of each player's injury and his recovery. In short, it is likely that Brouwer's injury had some effect on how he performed following his return. Hell, for all we know Gaudreau's recovery prevented him from being even better than he was.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

And you would be wrong about that in the absence of knowing the particulars of each player's injury and his recovery. In short, it is likely that Brouwer's injury had some effect on how he performed following his return. Hell, for all we know Gaudreau's recovery prevented him from being even better than he was.

Yeah, we don't have the details but you are claiming that Brouwer's finger led to diminished play, which is equally unproven and maybe only coincidental.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, we don't have the details but you are claiming that Brouwer's finger led to diminished play, which is equally unproven and maybe only coincidental.

My claim is that it is highly plausible that Brouwer's injury affected his play in the second half of the season. This is a massive difference from attempting to argue based on the recovery-track of two different players from a similar injury.

I continue to maintain that dismissing the effect of Brouwer's injury and recovery outright is shortsighted. It remains to be seen how he responds this year, which is why I will continue to contend with the prevailing insistence that he is simply a bad player.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My claim is that it is highly plausible that Brouwer's injury affected his play in the second half of the season. This is a massive difference from attempting to argue based on the recovery-track of two different players from a similar injury.

I continue to maintain that dismissing the effect of Brouwer's injury and recovery outright is shortsighted. It remains to be seen how he responds this year, which is why I will continue to contend with the prevailing insistence that he is simply a bad player.

I'm willing to accept that Brouwer had an off year but what I see from you as trying to find an excuse for the off year. This excuse about a bad hand is for a player who has never shown his hands are a large part of his game.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm willing to accept that Brouwer had an off year but what I see from you as trying to find an excuse for the off year. This excuse about a bad hand is for a player who has never shown his hands are a large part of his game.

He has to hold his hockey stick, shooting, puck handle, pass - all with this hands. If they weren't right - how would that not be a big part of his game?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is so anecdotal and subjective. It is virtually meaningless.

The same way you were adamant MCDavid wasn't anything special in the off season? Meaningless.

Brouwer was awful last season and his pinky injury doesn't excuse him from playing like he didn't care. You can put all the fancy words you want but your opinion is just as subjective and meaningless as the rest of us.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The same way you were adamant MCDavid wasn't anything special in the off season? Meaningless...

Yeah, that is not the same thing at all.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm willing to accept that Brouwer had an off year but what I see from you as trying to find an excuse for the off year. This excuse about a bad hand is for a player who has never shown his hands are a large part of his game.

I would prefer to call it an explanation rather than an excuse, but I suppose that is splitting hairs a bit.

The point here is an important one that continues to be ignored by a significant number of posters: Troy Brouwer has historically been a +15 goal / + 35 point player. Why would we not attempt to find reasons for such a sizeable drop in production in the course of a single season?

In as much as I am viewed by some as too willing to extend to Brouwer the benefit of doubt that he is actually a competent top-nine NHL forward, then I would expect his detractors to concede likewise: that you have unfairly ignored Brouwer's career output in favour of this current narrative in which he is a borderline NHL player. HE IS NOT.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would prefer to call it an explanation rather than an excuse, but I suppose that is splitting hairs a bit.

The point here is an important one that continues to be ignored by a significant number of posters: Troy Brouwer has historically been a +15 goal / + 35 point player. Why would we not attempt to find reasons for such a sizeable drop in production in the course of a single season?

In as much as I am viewed by some as too willing to extend to Brouwer the benefit of doubt that he is actually a competent top-nine NHL forward, then I would expect his detractors to concede likewise: that you have unfairly ignored Brouwer's career output in favour of this current narrative in which he is a borderline NHL player. HE IS NOT.

So what is your prediction for Brouwer in 17/18? Both production and role.

I'll go first. I see less than 20 points. About 60 games played due to a couple of minor injuries and the odd healthy scratch. And playing on the fourth line most games. (borderline NHL player)

[Darth Tkachuk]

Brouwer played himself on to the fourth line last year. Regardless of wether his injury had anything to do with that not, is irrelivant. Nothing should be given freely. He should start the year on the fourth line, and if he proves he deserves more, it will be because he's earned it. No free passes.