American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by New Era

Before we get too busy giving McCain a medal, lets all be reminded that he and Pence were locked in negotiations for quite some time before he cast his vote. McConnell was also confident he had the votes to get this back to the House, and that Pence was going to cast the tie breaker to make that happen. The look on McConnell and McCain's faces said it all. I don't think there was some master plan to this than McCain or anyone else cooked up.

Plus unless he was conspiring with Collins and Murkowski, how could he definitively know he was going to be the 51st vote? They could easily have been bought off by McConnell, and if that happens the plan falls apart, and McCain almost certainly joins to make it 51-49 the other way. Plus there's always using the nuclear option later on to totally dismantle Obamacare rather than the skinny repeal. I'm glad McCain ####ed Trump over, but I seriously doubt he was running game here.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Like Trump, it seems like for every tweet Mooch makes about something, there's a previous tweet where he shows his rank hypocrisy. Case in point...

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Bannon is probably the next to go. I think Bannon thought he was using Trump to get hit foot in the WH but pretty clear that Trump was using Bannon for votes from unhinged right. Now that he doesn't need that, he's going to consolidate power within his inner-circle of family members, business allies, and sycophants. The one problem with that is that he doesn't seem to have policy wonk in that group or someone that can help him successfully navigate Congress.

good question...

Bannon didn't like Preibus, so in some ways this was a bit of a win for him...In addition to this, and this might surprise folks, but Bannon was an employee at Goldman Sachs and made a fortune while being a Globalist (which he now disavows).

As a result of that, he actually overlapped with Scaramuchi... they knew of each other and he worked for the guy that hired Bannon..https://www.thestreet.com/story/1406...man-sachs.html

obviously there seems to be some rivalry there now, but firing Bannon will unleash the Brietbart hordes on Trump... so I am not sure if Trump would unceremoniously dump him...

i would actually look to someone like Mathis or HR MacMaster leaving next to be honest... Men of actual integrity must be struggling mightily under Trump... not sure how long they can keep biting their tongues. HR McMaster is a bit different as he is an active military officer, so he might have to retire or something like that...
.

[nik-]

the salt

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...thcare-failure

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Plus unless he was conspiring with Collins and Murkowski, how could he definitively know he was going to be the 51st vote? They could easily have been bought off by McConnell, and if that happens the plan falls apart, and McCain almost certainly joins to make it 51-49 the other way. Plus there's always using the nuclear option later on to totally dismantle Obamacare rather than the skinny repeal. I'm glad McCain ####ed Trump over, but I seriously doubt he was running game here.

Edit: this was discussed earlier, but I think the emphasis at the end of this post requires the rehash to make the point.

The answer lies in the details of reconciliation.

McCain definitely knew the other two were no's and knew he'd be the deciding vote, or at an least insurance vote. He dropped hints for a week about it. He couldn't vote no on the motion to proceed, or it wouldn't have gone to an actual vote, which triggered the GOP actually using their one chance with reconciliation. You can only vote on one bill per year via reconciliation. By allowing it to go to vote, that meant that this "tool" of reconciliation is dead for the GOP until next year. They now need 60 votes and are forced to work with the Dems.

What McCain abhorred more than stripping healthcare from people (debatable whether he felt that was what was happening), was the extreme partisanship that was being used to craft the legislation. What he did, in the way he did it, meant that McConnell's method was voided and there would have to be bipartisan work to fix healthcare. That's why McConnell was so mad. His tricks are all used up and he now has literally no choice but to work through committees and hearings which McCain has been demanding all along

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Another twitter meltdown for Trump this morning. All started by watching Fox and saying Russia didn't want Trump to win. Then went on to complain about needing 60 seats instead of 51 in the senate and called McConnell to change it now.

So much winning.

[puffnstuff]

Simple majority vote is what he thinks would be best, so I wonder if he means it for everything? Like say...presidential elections?

And the filibuster rule? Does he mean the rule the gop used all the time in the last 7 years?

[nik-]

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Edit: this was discussed earlier, but I think the emphasis at the end of this post requires the rehash to make the point.

The answer lies in the details of reconciliation.

McCain definitely knew the other two were no's and knew he'd be the deciding vote, or at an least insurance vote. He dropped hints for a week about it. He couldn't vote no on the motion to proceed, or it wouldn't have gone to an actual vote, which triggered the GOP actually using their one chance with reconciliation. You can only vote on one bill per year via reconciliation. By allowing it to go to vote, that meant that this "tool" of reconciliation is dead for the GOP until next year. They now need 60 votes and are forced to work with the Dems.

What McCain abhorred more than stripping healthcare from people (debatable whether he felt that was what was happening), was the extreme partisanship that was being used to craft the legislation. What he did, in the way he did it, meant that McConnell's method was voided and there would have to be bipartisan work to fix healthcare. That's why McConnell was so mad. His tricks are all used up and he now has literally no choice but to work through committees and hearings which McCain has been demanding all along

The reconciliation process can be used up to three times per budget year. This was not a one and done scenario like some meathead on reddit suggested. First rule of fight club, never take anything on reddit seriously.

For McCain to be this super sexy evil genius, like is being suggested, it would have been his doing to force this to reconciliation. He didn't. He would also would have had the "one and done" scenario in his back pocket, which he did not. The moving parts in all of this would have required McCain to have much more control over the Senate than he has. McCain is not some brilliant politician who plays three dimensional chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Ask any Arizonian and they will tell you that McCain can't spell chess, doesn't see things in three dimensions, and is a mediocre checkers player. Pence obviously didn't give McCain what he wanted, and McCain took opportunity to take something away from Pence in that moment.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Edit: this was discussed earlier, but I think the emphasis at the end of this post requires the rehash to make the point.

The answer lies in the details of reconciliation.

McCain definitely knew the other two were no's and knew he'd be the deciding vote, or at an least insurance vote. He dropped hints for a week about it. He couldn't vote no on the motion to proceed, or it wouldn't have gone to an actual vote, which triggered the GOP actually using their one chance with reconciliation. You can only vote on one bill per year via reconciliation. By allowing it to go to vote, that meant that this "tool" of reconciliation is dead for the GOP until next year. They now need 60 votes and are forced to work with the Dems.

What McCain abhorred more than stripping healthcare from people (debatable whether he felt that was what was happening), was the extreme partisanship that was being used to craft the legislation. What he did, in the way he did it, meant that McConnell's method was voided and there would have to be bipartisan work to fix healthcare. That's why McConnell was so mad. His tricks are all used up and he now has literally no choice but to work through committees and hearings which McCain has been demanding all along

Now the bolded is pretty funny considering how things went from January 2009-January 2017. He was pretty cool with extreme partisanship during that period, routinely voting to just repeal Obamacare (nevermind Merrick Garland not even getting a hearing). So the whole "let's be bipartisan" narrative now rings remarkably hollow. And dismissing McConnell as being done here ignores Trump's continued insistence at using the nuclear option. I know the turtle has said several times he won't do it, but they've capitulated to Trump so many times it's hard to take that seriously. He still has more moves to make here, McCain has not checkmated him yet.

Plus the media wants the McCain was the difference/had a scheme narrative because they've spent years and years building up the "maverick" image, despite of course not really being a maverick at all. Right now the two women who deserve the vast majority of the credit are predictably being shortchanged for their role in this, which is disappointing. Murkowski got mob level threats against her and stood tall. We should be talking much more about that than some possible scheme McCain concocted

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Now the bolded is pretty funny considering how things went from January 2009-January 2017. He was pretty cool with extreme partisanship during that period, routinely voting to just repeal Obamacare (nevermind Merrick Garland not even getting a hearing). So the whole "let's be bipartisan" narrative now rings remarkably hollow. And dismissing McConnell as being done here ignores Trump's continued insistence at using the nuclear option. I know the turtle has said several times he won't do it, but they've capitulated to Trump so many times it's hard to take that seriously. He still has more moves to make here, McCain has not checkmated him yet.

Plus the media wants the McCain was the difference/had a scheme narrative because they've spent years and years building up the "maverick" image, despite of course not really being a maverick at all. Right now the two women who deserve the vast majority of the credit are predictably being shortchanged for their role in this, which is disappointing. Murkowski got mob level threats against her and stood tall. We should be talking much more about that than some possible scheme McCain concocted

Yup. Of the 3 GOP Senators, Murkowski deserves the most credit. In addition to dealing with the threats you referenced, she also represents a deep red state.

From what I can tell of the internet in the subsequent days is that there is a huge backlash for not giving them enough credit initially.

So because of that, their ability to stand tall is being given well deserved kudos, but after the fact.

You're correct that the media has to self fulfill their pushed narrative of "maverick." But the in-the-moment drama that got the Stone Cold/Jim Ross treatment came out of nowhere and created a visceral reaction.

What also needs to be brought to light and repeated ad nauseum are the senators that voted yes in spite of the obvious reasons they shouldn't have. (Heller, Moore Capito, Graham..etc)

[oldschoolcalgary]

Totally agree that Murkowski, then Collins and then McCain deserve credit and in that order.

Murkowski and Collins stood their ground throughout, even under withering pressure from their fellow GOP senators...

McCain's vote was important and made for great headlines (ie "The Maverick gets off his deadbed to save Healthcare.") for the media, but Murkowski and Collins stuck to their guns right from the start.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...collins-mccain

[Wormius]

I think they had to vote for the good of their constituents, regardless of whether their constituents might be rednecks who don't know the consequences of repealing the ACA.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

This image is actually a week or so old, so he's over 1000 tweets now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

^^^So much winning!!!

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Hey let's just keep voting on this thing until it passes!

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Unless the Republican Senators are total quitters, Repeal & Replace is not dead! Demand another vote before voting on any other bill!

[Reggie Dunlop]

This keeps getting crazier.

Mooch's wife was nine months pregnant. Has baby when Mooch is in Washington. Mooch didn't see his newborn son for four days. Wive files for divorce.

http://pagesix.com/2017/07/29/scaram..._share=twitter

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Hey let's just keep voting on this thing until it passes!

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Unless the Republican Senators are total quitters, Repeal & Replace is not dead! Demand another vote before voting on any other bill!

Isn't there some way to effectively neuter the power of the president so he's not constantly getting in the way of the running of the government?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Isn't there some way to effectively neuter the power of the president so he's not constantly getting in the way of the running of the government?

In domestic policy the president has very little constitutional power. The house and senate could pass bills that were veto proof. We forget that the partisanship in the house and senate exists separate from the ridiculous stupidity that is Trump.

So even in a world with a regular republican or democrat president the shenanigans of the health care bill still happen.