The emphasis should be on "was an all star defenseman" - that was before he arrived on the Flames. In the 88-89 season Ramage was behind Macinnis, Suter, McCrimmon, Macoun, and probably Murzyn. Yes, he stepped up after Suter was injured and made an important contribution to the Cup win, but he didn't play like an all star in 88 when he joined the Flames, and although he may have provided leadership intangibles, he was definitely not the dominant player they were hoping for when they traded for him.
Lol @ probably behind Murzyn.
Like a legitimize out loud laugh.
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I think of the Brett Hull trade as being a future favor to the Blues - it`s a way of saying thanks for getting fleeced in the past and in the near future and for a Stanley Cup that Calgary really needed after the disappointing loss in the 86 finals.
The Gilmour trade is the worse trade of all time as it basically sent the Flames down a long path of to the Young Guns era. Then history repeated itself with the Phaneuf trade. Anyone who thinks we won the trade with Stajan will likely think the same with Leeman being the game changer from the Glimour trade. Both trades were the precursor to the Flames going down a dark path!
The Phaneuf trade hurt at the time but with the way he continued down the headcase road and never seemed to revisit the early success he had... I still think it's safe to say this goal signle-handedly saw us win that trade:
Flames can`t give Stajan away even if it`s for free! On the other hand, the Leafs actually traded Phaneuf away even with a god-awful contract. He actually looked pretty good with the Senators in that playoff run. I`m sure a lot of Flames fans would say the same thing - Stajan was and still is NO GOOD for the Flames.
Flames can`t give Stajan away even if it`s for free! On the other hand, the Leafs actually traded Phaneuf away even with a god-awful contract. He actually looked pretty good with the Senators in that playoff run. I`m sure a lot of Flames fans would say the same thing - Stajan was and still is NO GOOD for the Flames.
I won't pretend to speak for other fans, but I do not think Stajan is no good.
(though that doesn't make it a good trade)
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Under appreciated in threads like these is Jason Weimer for Rob Neidermeyer, which is already a loss for us, but then we added in our leading scorer.
I'm still trying to erase my memory of this trade. Neidermeyer was already on the decline, yet was sold to fans as a #1 C. Considering how skill starved the Flames were, to trade Bure and Savard back-to-back pretty much...ugh.
I think of the Brett Hull trade as being a future favor to the Blues - it`s a way of saying thanks for getting fleeced in the past and in the near future and for a Stanley Cup that Calgary really needed after the disappointing loss in the 86 finals.
The Gilmour trade is the worse trade of all time as it basically sent the Flames down a long path of to the Young Guns era. Then history repeated itself with the Phaneuf trade. Anyone who thinks we won the trade with Stajan will likely think the same with Leeman being the game changer from the Glimour trade. Both trades were the precursor to the Flames going down a dark path!
Perhaps, but it was evident in 2009 that the Flames team was not going to ever do anything with their current makeup, so the fact that certain things happened to instigate a proper rebuild was not a bad thing.
The Gilmour trade was the first blow in a dark era that was largely caused due to financial problems.
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The third round pick was used to draft future Conn Smythe winner Brad Richards.
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I’m always amazed these sportscasters and announcers can call the game with McDavid’s **** in their mouths all the time.
I'm sure a lot of Flames fans would say the same thing - Stajan was and still is NO GOOD for the Flames.
Sorry I think you'll find yourself in a small minority here with this take.
Stajan has been a serviceable bottom line centre for us and a positive presence during the re-build.
Calling him no good, especially while trying to spread that tag over his tenure, is out to lunch. He's certainly not a significant piece, but he's been good for us in his role.
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Looking at the Phaneuf trade today I'd say there was no winner.
Leafs got a few good years out of Phaneuf, but while he was here the Leafs were garbage so he took a lot of crap. The Leafs ended up trading him for nothing to the Sens.
Flames got a lot of plugs and you still have one left on the roster who you would like to trade away for nothing but no team wants him.
But at the time that trade was pure garbage. The Flames traded Phaneuf and Aulie (who was a decent prospect at the time) for spare parts (I really liked White when he was with the Leafs though and thought he would have turned into something more).
Phaneuf is still a top 4 Dman in this league. He is overpaid but he is a much more important player than Stajan.
LV chose to take no player under contract . I think it is pretty safe to say no one wants him
Pretty suspect reasoning and conclusion. They only took Engelland because they had negotiated to sign him and defencemen are more valuable than depth centres. So it says nothing about whether other teams would want him or not.
That said he has a limited no trade and I don't think the Flames are looking to move him. Centre is one of the most important positions and he provides good depth for us. I think the Flames will ride the contact out.
Flames got a lot of plugs and you still have one left on the roster who you would like to trade away for nothing but no team wants him.
That's a total mischaracterization of the situation. A minority of fans might like to deal Stajan away for nothing but I highly doubt the team is looking to move him. He's one of the few veteran leaders on the team. He's a role model as a person for many of the young kids we have. He provides good depth at one of the most important positions in the game. Pretty sure Treliving didn't get us great defense and centre depth just to try and give some of it away for nothing.
I'm not even the biggest Stajan fan, I've always thought he was overpaid by about a million. But to suggest he has no value, no team wants him is preposterous IMO. We're happy to keep him for the duration of his contract IMO. Injuries are inevitable and it's nice having a veteran 4th line centre who can play 3rd line if need be. Flames are very deep at that position with Monahan, Backlund, Bennett, Stajan, Lazar, Hamilton, and Jankowski. It's intentional and makes us a deep team for next year. We can survive multiple injuries at that position. Flames have better defensive and centre depth than we've ever had in my 20 years of following the team and I think it makes us a real threat to be a contender.
Don't listen to the loud minority who wants Stajan dealt away, they don't really represent the reality of situation. He'll likely leave as an UFA next summer which happens to coincide with when Lazar and Jankowski will likely be established NHLers. Timing works out just fine for us as we'll likely need that cap space next summer to re-sign others. I really don't think he has been shopped or will be shopped. I think the Flames management and coaches are very happy to have him as a depth centre this year. The fans who want him shopped are likely the types who can't stand having overpaid veterans in depth positions and think we could better spend the money elsewhere. But IMO we don't really have big holes for next season unless some crazy injuries hit and therefore the fact he's slightly overpaid is pretty irrelevant for us next season. He doesn't need to be a steal of a contract, he just needs to be a good veteran, good role model and a good depth centre.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 07-30-2017 at 12:27 AM.
The Vegas expansion draft strategy was all about accumulating picks. If Stajan had any trade value the Knights would have picked and flipped him.
The Phanuef trade wasn't Gilmour horrible but it was still a bad trade. The Flames should have been able to trade him for a good young forward like Jones for Johansen or Larsson for Hall. Instead they got spare parts. Stajan still contributing to the Flames makes the trade better however a bottom line centre could have been acquired for a 3rd round pick or through free agency, not by giving up a Norris nominated young defenceman.
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The Vegas expansion draft strategy was all about accumulating picks. If Stajan had any trade value the Knights would have picked and flipped him.
Stajan has a limited NTC. I'm not sure Vegas could even have known which teams were on or not on the list unless they actually took him. So to suggest they'd take him to flip him for picks makes little to no sense. They would have had to take him, hope that the teams interested in trading for him weren't on his no-trade list and then potentially just keep him if they were. So yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all.
Trying to suggest that he has no trade value because Vegas didn't take him is suspect reasoning. It's also suspect reasoning because Engelland signed may have more value to them as a hometown guy then trading Stajan for a mid round pick. Which again doesn't necessarily mean Stajan has no value. We've seen guys like Engelland get traded at deadlines for 3rd or 2nd rounders (see Doug Murray one year). Stajan likely doesn't get traded for that much. Therefore Engelland is worth more to them than Stajan. But that doesn't mean Stajan is worthless league wide.
Not sure why this suspect reasoning gets repeated over and over again.
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Not sure why this suspect reasoning gets repeated over and over again.
It keeps getting repeated because it is the only evidence we have about Stajan's trade value. Vegas valued draft picks so if Stajan does have value it only makes sense they would have picked and flipped him like Methot. Yes the NTC complicates things but I'm guessing he would have waived to go to a contender instead of staying on an expansion team. Instead of Stajan, Vegas picked a player they could have signed as a UFA which speaks volumes about what they thought of his value.
I am a fan of Stajan and think he makes a great 4th line centre and veteran leader but that doesn't change the fact he has little to no trade value due to his age and contract. Also, even if he was somehow traded for a 2nd that still doesn't change the fact the Phaneuf trade was bad.
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