I don't see it that way. I see it as McCain voting to get on to actually debating and amending the bill in a non-partisan fashion as a properly functioning senate should. In his speech he said that although he was voting to send it to debate, he certainly wouldn't vote in favor of the bill in its current form.
All in all, I think McCain nailed that speech. He called out the bipartisanship that has gripped politics of late. He called out Trump as the Senate's equal, not their superior. Good on him.
We'll see. You have more faith in him than I do. To me he's all talk, no action. I think at the end of the day he'll just tow the line. Hope I'm wrong, but I expect very little out of him now.
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Jim Sciutto@jimsciutto
Trump: “With the exception of the late great Abraham Lincoln I could be more presidential than any president who has ever held this office"
Jim Sciutto@jimsciutto
Trump: “With the exception of the late great Abraham Lincoln I could be more presidential than any president who has ever held this office"
I've gotten to the point where I can't tell if these quotes are real or not.
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He called out the bipartisanship that has gripped politics of late.
And then voted to begin debate on.. something (who knows what) that hasn't seen one iota of partisan action, was designed in secret, chunks of it haven't been scored, and chunks of it can't pass the parliamentarian but there's no indication if those things will be stripped or if they'll just go nuclear on the parliamentarian.
The debate phase isn't to design the bill, it's supposed to be the end game where they can convince each other to vote for it or not, or to make amendments to tweak it. But big changes shouldn't happen during a debate since the consequences of those changes can't be known immediately.
The heavy lifting of creating the bill and bipartisan input and hearings and committees should have all happened before this.
What it really is is McConnell just getting into a situation where he can strong arm and coerce people more effectively, the pressure to just get something done will be greater and people may vote for things on the fly where they wouldn't if they had time to actually consider what was being proposed.
Not to mention McConnell can, at the end of the debate, basically dump everything and then swap in something else entirely and then they vote on that thing that wasn't even debated.
But they can just say "debate is good" and their base thinks it's Democrats who are against having an open debate.
Nope, McCain talks a good game, but if he really believed what he said I don't think he would have voted to proceed, since the whole process to that point was against what McCain was promoting. Just like he votes with Trump pretty much all the time, his actions speak louder than his words.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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I don't see it that way. I see it as McCain voting to get on to actually debating and amending the bill in a non-partisan fashion as a properly functioning senate should. In his speech he said that although he was voting to send it to debate, he certainly wouldn't vote in favor of the bill in its current form.
All in all, I think McCain nailed that speech. He called out the bipartisanship that has gripped politics of late. He called out Trump as the Senate's equal, not their superior. Good on him.
You really have not been following this #### for long enough if you actually believe McCain is anything but a party hack. He's voted with Trump positions 91% of the time so far (and that 9% is likely neocon war stuff Trump wants to slow down). It's the same with Lindsey Graham, and if an actual GOPer and not the orange usurper were President it'd be 100%. These guys love to talk a good game, primarily because it gets them the Sunday talk show invites. But they are cowards, the GOP could put out a bill tomorrow calling dog turds delicious, John and Lindsey will claim it's crass, and then they'll lay down and vote for it. Welcome to American politics since it seems you're a bit new to it.
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Last edited by Senator Clay Davis; 07-25-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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And then voted to begin debate on.. something (who knows what) that hasn't seen one iota of partisan action, was designed in secret, chunks of it haven't been scored, and chunks of it can't pass the parliamentarian but there's no indication if those things will be stripped or if they'll just go nuclear on the parliamentarian.
The debate phase isn't to design the bill, it's supposed to be the end game where they can convince each other to vote for it or not, or to make amendments to tweak it. But big changes shouldn't happen during a debate since the consequences of those changes can't be known immediately.
The heavy lifting of creating the bill and bipartisan input and hearings and committees should have all happened before this.
What it really is is McConnell just getting into a situation where he can strong arm and coerce people more effectively, the pressure to just get something done will be greater and people may vote for things on the fly where they wouldn't if they had time to actually consider what was being proposed.
Not to mention McConnell can, at the end of the debate, basically dump everything and then swap in something else entirely and then they vote on that thing that wasn't even debated.
But they can just say "debate is good" and their base thinks it's Democrats who are against having an open debate.
Nope, McCain talks a good game, but if he really believed what he said I don't think he would have voted to proceed, since the whole process to that point was against what McCain was promoting. Just like he votes with Trump pretty much all the time, his actions speak louder than his words.
the bolded portion really cannot be emphasized enough. Its a joke, and the idea that McCain would actually come out and wag his finger at people, ie the democrats, for being partisan is laughable.
say NO, end the reconciliation period and send it back to the House to get it rewritten from scratch
I'd use stronger words, but they don't seem to matter to Trump supporters anyways.
in some ways, i am leaning to full on Repeal of the Bill. Half of those that voted Trump will get what they deserve... the other half? Sadly they get screwed too, but their issues and hardships will fall square on the shoulders of the GOP...
I am hoping that their God does exist, so that they will have to answer for their disgusting actions
Last edited by oldschoolcalgary; 07-25-2017 at 06:38 PM.
In some ways, i am leaning to full on Repeal of the Bill. Half of those that voted Trump will get what they deserve... the other half? Sadly they get screwed too, but their issues and hardships will fall square on the shoulders of the GOP..
See I used to feel this way, and then I realized that it doesn't actually matter. When these people lose their healthcare, suffer severe Medicaid cuts, lose pre-existing conditions etc....there's likely a much greater chance they'll turn on FOX News or read the orange goblin's Tweetstorms, listen to them blame Obama and Hillary for this, and then willingly accept that and vote for the GOP again next time, then there is they'll vote against the GOP. Sad as it is to say, there are just many, many Americans that are total lost causes. The GOP gameplan of the last 20 years of crushing education and promoting willful ignorance as some kind of patriotic virtue has worked quite well. Expecting them to blame the GOP is pretty much like expecting to actually find the leprechaun at the end of the rainbow.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Last edited by Senator Clay Davis; 07-25-2017 at 06:52 PM.
In a nutshell. Anyone who doesn't understand this is part of the problem.
This is why the Republican party is completely devoid of caring at all about the middle class or the poor, at this point the local, state, and national level Republican party is completely geared towards doing all they can to do to pass what is in their interests.
Democrats certainly have a part of this issue, but nothing to the degree of the Republicans, they are at least able to try to find ideological reasons to justify their behavior, even if a great deal of them probably don't even genuinely believe it.
See I used to feel this way, and then I realized that it doesn't actually matter. When these people lose their healthcare, suffer severe Medicaid cuts, lose pre-existing conditions etc....there's likely a much greater chance they'll turn on FOX News or read the orange goblin's Tweetstorms, listen to them blame Obama and Hillary for this, and then willingly accept that and vote for the GOP again next time, then there is they'll vote against the GOP. Sad as it is to say, there are just many, many Americans that are total lost causes. The GOP gameplan of the last 20 years of crushing education and promoting willful ignorance as some kind of patriotic virtue has worked quite well. Expecting them to blame the GOP is pretty much like expecting to actually find the leprechaun at the end of the rainbow.
I am convinced a chunk of the GOP would blame the Democrats for the crucifixion of Jesus... so at the end of that, it doesn't matter...
You are right, the GOP have been cultivating this ignorance... but its not damned if you do, damned if you don't imo
this is what the GOP voted for... They ought to see the fruits of their ideology and how it ultimately manifests in policy...behavioral modification only works when there is a slap in the face at the end of it all... The GOP base think "the government is broken", well, they have no idea of how bad it will be getting with the RR of OCare and the tax cuts to the rich...
Last edited by oldschoolcalgary; 07-25-2017 at 07:08 PM.
I don't really buy that this is what people voted for. IMO there's a difference between Trump today, and Trump when he was campaigning. He has devolved over the months.
It probably won't be long until he legit has a nervous breakdown or psychotic break rendering him truly unfit. Hell the podcast title the other day from Pod Save America was "One step away from drooling on himself". Sadly that actually is closer to reality than we think, and there's no way immediately post-election or during the election people knew it'd actually be like this.
He's always lied, it's not surprising that he's proven to talk a big populist talk but walk a big establishment walk. The only thing that's really carried over from his campaign is the authoritarianism.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
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When I look at that list of GOPers who voted no, it's a cluster #### ideologically. Doesn't really make sense. I believe the vote on the straight Obamacare repeal will be tomorrow, and I'd expect you'll see several of those nays become yeas. The big thing to watch will obviously be whether we see the nuclear option. You know Trump wants it.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I don't really buy that this is what people voted for. IMO there's a difference between Trump today, and Trump when he was campaigning. He has devolved over the months.
Not on health care he hasn't.
He claimed he would repeal the ACA, as did all of the Republicans, and that is exactly what they are attempting to do now.
Those who voted for him and the Repubs knew exactly what they were getting when it comes to this issue.
He claimed he would repeal the ACA, as did all of the Republicans, and that is exactly what they are attempting to do now.
Those who voted for him and the Repubs knew exactly what they were getting when it comes to this issue.
This.
Repeal and Replace Obamacare has been a tent pole of the GOP platform the last 7 years...
The problem is that there isn't really a way to replace Obamacare with something better without having to cut people out of coverage...That idea was just a BS line that the GOP sold the people on...
They can't even get their own party, who control the 3 houses of Government to pass their own plan, which is supposed to be better than Obamacare...
that in itself tells you something... Cutting 22 million - 27 million people from having healthcare doesn't sound better in my books... especially when that money will be passed on as tax cuts benefiting the Elite...
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Exactly. The Republicans know the game being played here and how reconciliation works. They're trying to push this through against all norms of American government. This should have been dead this morning, but McConnell and his cronies are going to try and manipulate the system, just like they did with Merrick Garland's confirmation. The GOP has no soul.
