Johnny one of the biggest draft day steals of the last 10 years

[robaur]

Kucherov had 85 points in 74 games last year.......easily #1 in terms of impact forward....He almost carried the Bolts to the playoffs last year along with Hedman. This guy has the potential to be a Top 5 player in the league and hit 90+ points. He's that elite.

Scheifele had a 82 point season but shot at a ridiculous 20% shooting percentage. I expect regression in his numbers this year. He comes in at #2.

Gaudreau has had a 78 point season and the fact that he didn't have a stellar year last season...is what brings him to #3.


So I see Kucherov as the clear #1 and then Scheifele/Gaudreau is the conversation to be had for #2/#3 over the next couple of years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers. Arguably Larsson maybe goes ahead of him as well, depends on the organizational philosophy.

I think Hamilton goes fourth in a redraft.

As for Larsson, that's ridiculous. No GM is entertaining a trade where they give up Sheiffele, Kucherov or Gaudreau for Larsson. Hamilton is a conversation, Larsson isn't.

[GioforPM]

Seguin at number two was a huge steal. Same with Ryan Murray.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by robaur

Kucherov had 85 points in 74 games last year.......easily #1 in terms of impact forward....He almost carried the Bolts to the playoffs last year along with Hedman. This guy has the potential to be a Top 5 player in the league and hit 90+ points. He's that elite.

Scheifele had a 82 point season but shot at a ridiculous 20% shooting percentage. I expect regression in his numbers this year. He comes in at #2.

Gaudreau has had a 78 point season and the fact that he didn't have a stellar year last season...is what brings him to #3.


So I see Kucherov as the clear #1 and then Scheifele/Gaudreau is the conversation to be had for #2/#3 over the next couple of years.

Classic 'taking the last season as gospel' take. Right out of HFboards.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?

Well it's a strange hypothetical because the Flames are very deep at centre. But from a value standpoint I'd definitely do it. It would force Bennett onto LW that's for sure but I think we'd still be fine with Bennett/Tkachuk as the top 2 LWs and Scheiffele, Monahan, Backlund as the top 3 centres.

Scheiffele is just the more valuable player leaguewide IMO. He'd go higher in a true redraft IMO.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think Hamilton goes fourth in a redraft.

As for Larsson, that's ridiculous. No GM is entertaining a trade where they give up Sheiffele, Kucherov or Gaudreau for Larsson. Hamilton is a conversation, Larsson isn't.

I think Hamilton goes 2nd in a redraft. 6'5 puck moving right shot dmen who can play top pairing are just more valuable than 1st line wingers IMO.

Larson probably goes 5th after Gaudreau/Kucherov. My point was more that all the defencemen were being ignored. Most GMs talk about building through centre and defense first with wing being the least important position. Therefore when talking about a true redraft (where GMs and not fans are picking) it would be an oversight to not bring the top few defencemen into the conversation.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Classic 'taking the last season as gospel' take. Right out of HFboards.

Oh yeah ? What is your take then? What part do you disagree with ?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think Hamilton goes 2nd in a redraft. 6'5 puck moving right shot dmen who can play top pairing are just more valuable than 1st line wingers IMO.

Larson probably goes 5th after Gaudreau/Kucherov. My point was more that all the defencemen were being ignored. Most GMs talk about building through centre and defense first with wing being the least important position. Therefore when talking about a true redraft (where GMs and not fans are picking) it would be an oversight to not bring the top few defencemen into the conversation.

IMO defencemen are seriously underrated on draft day. Possibly because the bang for the buck won't be realized until a couple years later than a forward.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by robaur

Oh yeah ? What is your take then? What part do you disagree with ?

Your analysis was spot on, it's just some people have a hard time taking off the homer glasses. No one is passing up on a 40 goal scorer (actually on pace for 44 goals) today, not when the leading goal scorer in the league got 44 goals...No one is easily passing up a big point-per-game center producing more than the undersized winger.

I'm not saying Gaudreau won't have a better season, or Kucherov won't regress, but if the redraft happened tomorrow, maybe with the exception Hamilton sneaking in there, yours is the order they go in. Who knows what it would be after this season or beyond. Even though all those players have had similar seasons over the last 3, pretty much neglecting the argument that was brought up, it was still weak because sports is all about what have you done for me lately.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by robaur

Oh yeah ? What is your take then? What part do you disagree with ?

I thought I was pretty clear.

The part where you took Kucherov's last season and extrapolated him into a 90 point top five player in the league.

Johnny's season was marred by a slow start and injury.

I think he still has the potential to be a top ten point producer in the league and am not going to let last season write that off.

They're both great players, and this is a very subjective subject.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Your analysis was spot on, it's just some people have a hard time taking off the homer glasses.



...because sports is all about what have you done for me lately.

Nothing to do with homer glasses. You simply don't take the last season and base concrete opinions off it. The "what have you done for me lately" take is exactly what makes HF boards such a joke.


The fact is this list would likely fluctuate every off season as people with no scope / context would continue to base it off the season prior.

There's a bigger picture and until their careers progress, it remains completely subjective. Declaring one view as "spot on" couldn't be more premature and off base.

[Vinny01]

I feel the Flames hitting a home run on Johnny is among the main reasons the rebuild appears to be over and the team a contender 4.5 years after trading Iginla.

I feel the main reasons are
1. Hitting huge on Gaudreau
2. Leftovers from Sutter's days panning out (Gio, Brodie, Backlund, Ferland)
3. Hitting on our top 10 picks (Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk)
4. Improved drafting
5. Aggressive GM who has added all 3 of our RHD via trade.

[jayswin]

Our biggest factors to a (so far) successful rebuild are

1. Johnny Gaudreau (star forward in the fourth round that most teams require a top 5 pick to acquire)

2. An incredibly active/smart/respected GM that seems to walk a perfect line between lying in wait and aggressively attacking.

3. Dougie Hamilton - which came from #2.

[jayswin]

Basically the best way to look at our success is to acknowledge that it takes poor seasons and high draft picks to rebuild a team successfully, which can take years upon years, and false starts/missteps. So you look at our roster players and where they would likley be redrafted and that's where you see why we are where we are.

Monahan - Top 5 pick
Gaudreau - Top 5 pick
Hamilton - Top 5 pick
Tkachuk - Top 5 pick
Brodie - Top 10 pick
Backlund - Top 15 pick
Hamonic - Top 10 pick
Giordano - Top 10 pick
Bennett - Top 10 pick (possibly elevated in the next two years)

Without actually tanking our core resembles that of a team that has continually tanked to the tune of a minimum four top 5 and four top 10 draft picks if they were re-drafted. That's insane and will have any franchise smelling like roses.

[united]

Funny they called Wayne Simmonds a steal in the second round, which he definitely was, but didn't mention he went undrafted entirely in his first year of eligibility.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Larson probably goes 5th after Gaudreau/Kucherov.

LOL. No. There are at least ten guys you take before Larsson, and one of them is Klefbom.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Nothing to do with homer glasses. You simply don't take the last season and base concrete opinions off it. The "what have you done for me lately" take is exactly what makes HF boards such a joke.


The fact is this list would likely fluctuate every off season as people with no scope / context would continue to base it off the season prior.

There's a bigger picture and until their careers progress, it remains completely subjective. Declaring one view as "spot on" couldn't be more premature and off base.

Kucherov very possibly walks away with the Rocket Richard trophy if not for missing a couple games. It's not one year either. He scored 30 goals the year before while missing time and 28 the year before that. Over the last three seasons, you know since Gaudreau entered the league, Kucherov is a top 10 player in goals.

Insulting someone with your stupid "right out of HFboards" drive by post was incredible stupid, especially as the guy put effort into his post and was completely right about it. If you're talking about what makes discussion board "such a joke" it was post like yours. You could have replied with an actual point instead of throwing a hissy fit because he didn't have Gaudreau as number one.

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

There's a bigger picture and until their careers progress, it remains completely subjective. Declaring one view as "spot on" couldn't be more premature and off base.

Yeah, obviously. But if you notice the whole thread has been a discussion of redrafting the 2011 NHL draft today, if you don't like it, don't post. Don't be a ###### at the very least.

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I thought I was pretty clear.

The part where you took Kucherov's last season and extrapolated him into a 90 point top five player in the league.

You're going to take issue with someone suggesting Kucherov could potentially reach 90 points?

He put up 85 in 74 last season. That's a 95 point pace...

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Top 10? What the hell is he talking about?

If 2011 were redrawn today, the top 3 forwards would be Kucherov, Scheifele and Gaudreau IMO, in whatever order you prefer. Landeskog may sneak into that group, or be right behind it.

And Hamilton would still be the top defenseman.

Crazy that the Flames had both Kucherov and Gaudreau as 'wild cards' on their draft list. Imagine if they had taken both.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Kucherov very possibly walks away with the Rocket Richard trophy if not for missing a couple games. It's not one year either. He scored 30 goals the year before while missing time and 28 the year before that. Over the last three seasons, you know since Gaudreau entered the league, Kucherov is a top 10 player in goals.

Insulting someone with your stupid "right out of HFboards" drive by post was incredible stupid, especially as the guy put effort into his post and was completely right about it. If you're talking about what makes discussion board "such a joke" it was post like yours. You could have replied with an actual point instead of throwing a hissy fit because he didn't have Gaudreau as number one.


Yeah, obviously. But if you notice the whole thread has been a discussion of redrafting the 2011 NHL draft today, if you don't like it, don't post. Don't be a ###### at the very least.


You're going to take issue with someone suggesting Kucherov could potentially reach 90 points?

He put up 85 in 74 last season. That's a 95 point pace...

You already strolled in an anointed one opinion as being a correct one, the rest of this drivel really comes as no surprise.

My point what this is a subjective notion and a fluid subject as each of these players is young and the verdict is still out there.

If you think you can concretely declare a correct answer and then label anyone who disagrees with you as a homer, more power to you. Just shows which HF board style takes to immediately discard.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I thought I was pretty clear.

The part where you took Kucherov's last season and extrapolated him into a 90 point top five player in the league.

Is it unfair to say he has that potential though?

It's not like he said he was going to be a perennial 90 pt guy and sure fire top 5 player in the league. He said he has that potential. Considering he was already 6th in points, and 5th in PPG it's not that far of a stretch to say he might have the potential to be even better.

For the most part I agree that he doesn't really scream "top 5 player in the league", but I wouldn't be surprised if he hit 90 points, and that might actually make him a top 5 player considering only two guys have broken 90 points in the last 3 seasons.

In terms of which forward I would take first in that draft it's a tough question.

Over the last three seasons.

Kucherov: 0.93 PPG (10th)
Gaudreau: 0.88 PPG (16th)
Scheifele: 0.83 PPG (22nd)

The big thing that Kucherov has to go along with that too is great playoff point production, the guy has .95 PPG in the playoffs over the last 3 years.

Honestly the only one I couldn't see going first overall is Gaudreau. If you want a dynamic scoring winger then Kucherov has been better the last couple years, however if you value size and the center ice position then you would go Scheifele.