Law School Advice?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Accountants don't have a sense of humour.

Can confirm.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Charsiu

From what I understand the skillset which a JD affords you is fairly transferable . . . .

In theory, I suppose so, but in practice, not so much---particularly if you want a non-legal job.

For example, transactional lawyers may be great at drafting, spotting typos, and writing concisely, but a book publisher looking for a copywriter generally isn't looking to hire (much less interview) people with JD----no, those jobs and interviews generally first go to the person with the English degree.

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

. . . but the upside is also there as it can open up a lot of doors. It isn't just about working at a big firm and becoming a partner; there are many different jobs that are legal related.

* * *

. . . but I just wanted to make clear that there are a myriad of choices that are available with a law degree, so you can make the most of it which works for you.

And that is the key part: having a law degree allows you to work in legal-related jobs.

And, even then, and as to more general legal-related jobs,like HR, or compliance, or the like, the law degree is more a bonus than a required element.

I think that law schools oversell a lot of things to law students, some more than others. But law schools significantly oversell the marketability of a law degree.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Accountants don't have a sense of humour.

but they do get to ride in helicopters during amazing action sequences as they make it happen!

[steve9981]

nm

[blankall]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

In theory, I suppose so, but in practice, not so much---particularly if you want a non-legal job.

For example, transactional lawyers may be great at drafting, spotting typos, and writing concisely, but a book publisher looking for a copywriter generally isn't looking to hire (much less interview) people with JD----no, those jobs and interviews generally first go to the person with the English degree.




And that is the key part: having a law degree allows you to work in legal-related jobs.

And, even then, and as to more general legal-related jobs,like HR, or compliance, or the like, the law degree is more a bonus than a required element.

I think that law schools oversell a lot of things to law students, some more than others. But law schools significantly oversell the marketability of a law degree.

I honestly think you could say the same thing about most degrees these days. They just aren't worth all that much. In terms of practical skills, most degrees just don't provide those. I know plenty of English majors, who I would consider awful practical writers. Yes, they can write essays on the historical significance of a book, but no they are not naturally great copywriters, for example.

What having a law degree does show is that you have the ability and tenacity to stick with and complete a demanding professional program.

A law degree can also provide you with connections within, exposure to, and experience with many industries.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by blankall

I honestly think you could say the same thing about most degrees these days. They just aren't worth all that much. In terms of practical skills, most degrees just don't provide those.

I've been practicing law for six years now, and in those six years, I think I've probably used maybe 3% of what I learned in school. It's true... school teaches you HOW to learn, rather than teaching what you actually need to know.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Charsiu

While I certainly don't want to get into an argument about what constitutes a good enough reason to become a lawyer, especially with someone who has found success and by the sounds of it, satisfaction with their decision, I would argue that I've come to realize that my skill set and personality seem suited, for what I imagine, the career entails. For this reason, I feel like its worth exploring further. So you have misread my intentions if you feel that I am simply looking for a career upgrade. Besides, I'm at the most preliminary of stages and feel that if I was to write the LSAT, do well enough on it to apply, and change my mind some months down the road, it would not be a wasted venture, nor one that I would regret.

Charsiu, the bolded part of your post above is key. What do you see as your key skills, and what do you imagine the (or, more accurately, your) legal career to entail?

One of the key bits of advice I prattle on to law students and young lawyers about is the difference between theory and practice. You may love an area of law in theory, but may hate practicing in that same area. It's the practice that will determine how much you enjoy your legal career.

What I mean by this is that you might love your torts class in law school, but hate spending your day drafting application materials, dealing with whiny clients, passive-aggressive opposing counsel, and the uncertainty of litigating a case to trial. You might love criminal law, but hate the pressure of prosecuting or defending a case, dealing with criminals, making oral submissions, and inevitably (even regularly) getting told off by a judge for something or other. You might think solicitor's work is dull in theory, but enjoy the detailed nature of the work, helping out real life people with their legal issues, crafting complex agreements, etc.

The best advice I can give you at this point is to be very honest with yourself about what you love, like, tolerate, and hate about your past work experiences. In other words, know thyself, and be honest about it. Once you've done that, talk to real life lawyers or work in real life law jobs as soon as you can. Ask lawyers straight up what their average day actually looks like (not just what they like and dislike about what they do). Does it sound awesome? Scary? Dull? Soul-destroying? What about their job inspires them (if anything)?

Law jobs aren't as rare as they were 7-8 years ago, and there's lots of breadth. If you are capable of it and identify a practice area (not a theory area) that you like the sound of, give it a go. Don't worry about money so much (unless making lots of money is what you really like about work - there are lawyers who thrive primarily on that). Most lawyers don't starve, no matter what they do, and many people with law degrees don't practice law at all.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like any specific insights. Otherwise just identify what you like the most, and look for a role within law that contains as much of that as possible. Do it early, so you can have a real goal early on - one that you actually want for reasons that you're sure of - rather than just taking whatever pays when you graduate 3-4 years from now. I know lots of people who've spent years in a job that never really suited them, just because it happened to be the first place they ended up.

[McG]

Originally Posted by Charsiu

I hear what you're saying but I feel as though much of what you say holds true for most jobs. High competition, stressful hours with seemingly less than commensurate wages, family connections needed to get ahead. Like you said these are common pitfalls across most industries.

I just feel that the potential benefits and paths which a JD offers outweigh the impediments you describe above. I don't have any preconceived notions about what the degree would offer nor do I have an unrealistic trajectory planned out. From what I understand the skillset which a JD affords you is fairly transferable, whereas I feel that all an MBA prepares you for is how to organize your contacts list and how to nod pensively when you hear the right managerial buzzword.

That must be an executive MBA that you are mentioning here.

A real MBA teaches a bit more than that, although some might say that an MBA is just a watered down BCOM.

Good luck with your LSAT.

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Charsiu, the bolded part of your post above is key. What do you see as your key skills, and what do you imagine the (or, more accurately, your) legal career to entail?

One of the key bits of advice I prattle on to law students and young lawyers about is the difference between theory and practice. You may love an area of law in theory, but may hate practicing in that same area. It's the practice that will determine how much you enjoy your legal career.

What I mean by this is that you might love your torts class in law school, but hate spending your day drafting application materials, dealing with whiny clients, passive-aggressive opposing counsel, and the uncertainty of litigating a case to trial. You might love criminal law, but hate the pressure of prosecuting or defending a case, dealing with criminals, making oral submissions, and inevitably (even regularly) getting told off by a judge for something or other. You might think solicitor's work is dull in theory, but enjoy the detailed nature of the work, helping out real life people with their legal issues, crafting complex agreements, etc.

The best advice I can give you at this point is to be very honest with yourself about what you love, like, tolerate, and hate about your past work experiences. In other words, know thyself, and be honest about it. Once you've done that, talk to real life lawyers or work in real life law jobs as soon as you can. Ask lawyers straight up what their average day actually looks like (not just what they like and dislike about what they do). Does it sound awesome? Scary? Dull? Soul-destroying? What about their job inspires them (if anything)?

Law jobs aren't as rare as they were 7-8 years ago, and there's lots of breadth. If you are capable of it and identify a practice area (not a theory area) that you like the sound of, give it a go. Don't worry about money so much (unless making lots of money is what you really like about work - there are lawyers who thrive primarily on that). Most lawyers don't starve, no matter what they do, and many people with law degrees don't practice law at all.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like any specific insights. Otherwise just identify what you like the most, and look for a role within law that contains as much of that as possible. Do it early, so you can have a real goal early on - one that you actually want for reasons that you're sure of - rather than just taking whatever pays when you graduate 3-4 years from now. I know lots of people who've spent years in a job that never really suited them, just because it happened to be the first place they ended up.

This post touches on some good points.

For the OP, Id ask yourself what kind of law are you interested in? I would then ask what kind of roles are available in this type of law. Then most importantly, I would suggest finding out what the day to day work is like for this type of role. I think most people dont know what a lawyer actually spends their day doing.

For example,do you want to work in the competitive areas of securities or corporate law? Do you want to work in a firm chasing billable hours or as in-house counsel in industry?

A lot of people watch TV and movies and see the exiting courtroom drama but have no idea what the day to day involves which can be the majority of the job.
Also, it might not all be glamorous.

Criminal law defending small time criminals like wife wifebeaters and racists arrested at protests fighting with antifa?

Real estate law reviewing contracts day after?

Doing wills and estates for mom&pop and advertising in the neighbourhood newsletter for clients?

[Charsiu]

I appreciate all of the advice and feel as though I've found a general consensus amongst your opinions and insight.

In regards to the words of Flylock and Taco about finding something that interests me earlier than later, I feel that I won't have a clear idea of this until I go through some sort of preliminary intro classes. I've spoken to lawyer friends both new and retired and the one whose words I put the most stock into, retired after 30 plus years, told me that he found success and satisfaction by being open and going where the work was. Is this still a viable option in today's climate? Or is it best to specialize or decide which path to take at an early age?
Anyway, thanks for the offer Flylock, I will reach out to you privately later.

Indeed, thanks to all of you, there is clearly a wealth of knowledge, (or at least verbosity!), on this board far greater than I thought and I will ask questions to those who offered when I have the time.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

All of the above is good advice. The one area that would caution you on, is the idea of knowing what area you might want to practice in, prior to going to school (and in many cases even after law school). I had a sense that I was more likely to be a solicitor than a litigator, but other than that, no preconceived notions and really didn't begin to narrow those choices down until after articling.

Edit: Looks like Charsiu already picked up what I was trying to lay down!

[troutman]

The thread title asks for Law School advice, but I think OP is really looking for advice on law as a career.

As for the LSAT, take a study course, or do practice exams. It will improve your score to get used to the question format.

As for Law School, it can be a great experience even if you never practice law. You will meet interesting and talented people. Some of the courses and case law is intellectually stimulating. Law students have a lot of fun too, at least we did at UBC. Many of my classmates don't practice law at all now, and do other things. Quite a few went on to do MBAs.

There are so many practice areas (limited only by our imaginations) that it is impossible to generalize about law as a profession. I encourage young lawyers to consider practice outside the big firm environment, whether you go to a small town, or set up your own shop. Maybe too late for me now at my age, but if I could start over, I would have tried to develop a practice in music and entertainment law. Match your skills with your interests.

[CaptainYooh]

I'm guessing troutman is a bit happier with his career choice than blankall.

[Charsiu]

Originally Posted by troutman

The thread title asks for Law School advice, but I think OP is really looking for advice on law as a career.

As for the LSAT, take a study course, or do practice exams. It will improve your score to get used to the question format.

As for Law School, it can be a great experience even if you never practice law. You will meet interesting and talented people. Some of the courses and case law is intellectually stimulating. Law students have a lot of fun too, at least we did at UBC. Many of my classmates don't practice law at all now, and do other things. Quite a few went on to do MBAs.

There are so many practice areas (limited only by our imaginations) that it is impossible to generalize about law as a profession. I encourage young lawyers to consider practice outside the big firm environment, whether you go to a small town, or set up your own shop. Maybe too late for me now at my age, but if I could start over, I would have tried to develop a practice in music and entertainment law. Match your skills with your interests.

I appreciate the advice. Indeed the title is a bit misleading, fortunately you're all astute enough to gather what I meant.

As for the LSAT I am currently writing practice exams and am following a self directed study guide. As the date draws near I'll decide whether or not I indeed need to take a course, everything I read states that writing timed practice exams is the truest way to optimize your scores.

To all the rest, I'd respond to all of you individually if I had the time but I do feel that you've offered an mix of encouragement and sober second thought which I am grateful for.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I'm guessing troutman is a bit happier with his career choice than blankall.

I actually quite like my job:

1. It's challenging.
2. It's allowed me to transition into running my own business.
3. I actually get to help people. I'd say about half of my clients are people who genuinely need help and benefit from the services of a lawyer. It's a great feeling to actually help them through an insurance matter, divorce, etc...


I'm also one of the most content lawyers I know. Part of that is being realistic about and accepting the downsides of the profession though. And as much as people complain about the wages, they can be great. However, being a lawyer is just a hard job. So in order to be happy in the profession, you have to be the kind of person who wants a challenging job.

I'm almost a 10 year call, and have now seen multiple drug addictions, cases of mental health and depression, alcoholism, divorce, and suicide within my colleagues. So as much as some seem to be going on about the intellectual pursuits and yada yada yada, these are the objective realities.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Charsiu

I've spoken to lawyer friends both new and retired and the one whose words I put the most stock into, retired after 30 plus years, told me that he found success and satisfaction by being open and going where the work was. Is this still a viable option in today's climate? Or is it best to specialize or decide which path to take at an early age?

Unless you have a real burning interest to specialize (i.e. into criminal law) or perhaps have a certain background that might lend itself to a certain specialization (i.e. IT/tech background versus engineering/oil and gas), I would recommend staying flexible and taking it as it comes. Lawyers are problem solvers for their clients and trying to jam a square peg into a round hole does not normally serve anyone's interests. The same applies to your career.

I will also note -- depending on where you go to school and what your financial situation is -- be cognizant of what student debts you might accumulate. It's not uncommon for graduates to gravitate to big law firms and to chase higher salaries because of crushing student debt. Lawyers also need to understand the economics of any given issue, and your career is no different.

[Sakic19]

I am a fairly recent grad from law school so feel free to pm if you have any school related questions. A good resource beyond CP that I can point you to is lawstudents.ca.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by McG

That must be an executive MBA that you are mentioning here.

A real MBA teaches a bit more than that, although some might say that an MBA is just a watered down BCOM.

MBAs are for people who couldn't get a CA.

[Resolute 14]

I have nothing much to add, other than I came across this Globe article while researching something else this morning. Discusses reasons why new/young lawyers become disillusioned with the industry: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle29807625/

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

MBAs are for people who couldn't get a CA.

Boooo!