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View Poll Results: Donald Trump's first 100 days have been a success.
Agree 45 11.00%
Not sure 22 5.38%
Disagree 342 83.62%
Voters: 409. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-11-2017, 02:50 PM   #6141
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Lawyers everywhere are wondering what sort of legal advice he's getting (or ignoring). These emails are essentially a confession.

My guess is that his life has simply taught him that anything he ever does wrong he'll never be accountable for, and that an explanation and a cheque will paper over any problem.

I think a few things will (or at least should) come of this. The major players in the Trump campaign will clam up in addition to further lawyering up. The Republican politicians close to Trump will begin to distance themselves from him. The bit-players will start approaching Mueller's team (through their lawyers) to see what kind of deals they can broker before they go down in the belly of the ship.

It could unravel fairly quickly now.
So apparently all of this information was leaked by three separate White House staffers at exactly the same time, all of whom stated they could be attributed as staffers. This type of coordination means it's coordinated and intentional leak by the White House itself.

Either the rats are leaving the ship and it's all coming crashing down, Daddy Trump just threw his kids under the bus to get ahead of something far more damaging coming out soon or the administration caught wind that the investigation already had this information and was going to release it and is doing damage control.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:56 PM   #6142
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So apparently all of this information was leaked by three separate White House staffers at exactly the same time, all of whom stated they could be attributed as staffers. This type of coordination means it's coordinated and intentional leak by the White House itself.

Either the rats are leaving the ship and it's all coming crashing down, Daddy Trump just threw his kids under the bus to get ahead of something far more damaging coming out soon or the administration caught wind that the investigation already had this information and was going to release it and is doing damage control.
My initial thought was this is a PR call, not a legal one. Which fits Trump's MO. It may well be as simple as that.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:01 PM   #6143
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"No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet!" - Donald J Trump
God, I hated when puppets were dragged into this...
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #6144
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No, these things take a while... the Watergate investigation (from break in to resignation) took over two years.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...mueller-240414



I mean seriously... where could junior think "incriminating information" from a foreign government about a former Senator/SecState was coming from except from espionage? You don't say "I'd love it" you say "call the FBI!".
Oh, I agree: Mueller's report/investigation will take ages. But the events under investigation likely occurred many months ago, so they've got a headstart as compared with something that just happened.

It's more the flood of evidence that seems likely to pick up now, and if the GOP is ever going to step away from Trump, now appears to be the time.

Also, Trump himself is now in a tight spot. I wonder who he has more loyalty to, himself or his kids. Kushner may already be beyond saving.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:12 PM   #6145
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Do you think Muellers investigation team is sending some of this info out? Where did the Times get the emails from?

Mueller can't really criminally charge the president or at least it would be the first time ever. And even if criminally charged he can just Pardon himself. So impeachment is really the only mechanism to damage him. In order to build up that impeachment case he needs to get house republicans on board.

I think this ends with Trump pardoning most of his team for all crimes ever committed and than resigning. But we are a good year away from that at least.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:14 PM   #6146
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So apparently all of this information was leaked by three separate White House staffers at exactly the same time, all of whom stated they could be attributed as staffers. This type of coordination means it's coordinated and intentional leak by the White House itself.

Either the rats are leaving the ship and it's all coming crashing down, Daddy Trump just threw his kids under the bus to get ahead of something far more damaging coming out soon or the administration caught wind that the investigation already had this information and was going to release it and is doing damage control.
Pence - quickly stated this was all before he joined. He would become president upon Trump's removal

Bannon - not linked with any of this and growing frustrated with Kushner/Junior

Not sure of the third. Sessions??
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:23 PM   #6147
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Do you think Muellers investigation team is sending some of this info out? Where did the Times get the emails from?

Mueller can't really criminally charge the president or at least it would be the first time ever. And even if criminally charged he can just Pardon himself. So impeachment is really the only mechanism to damage him. In order to build up that impeachment case he needs to get house republicans on board.

I think this ends with Trump pardoning most of his team for all crimes ever committed and than resigning. But we are a good year away from that at least.
It's unclear if he could pardon himself. There's certainly no precedent, but a pardon by definition is from a sovereign to a citizen, so unlikely it would be that simple. At the very least, very risky.

It's moot if impeachment comes as that's political, not judicial (I think most people in this thread have discussed this ad nauseum).

What is interesting though, is that despite the legal quagmire of indicting a sitting president for a crime and trying to prosecute him, that dissapates the second he leaves office.

So you could simply wait until either impeachment or end of term to indict and he'd be hooped
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:26 PM   #6148
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Also, Trump himself is now in a tight spot. I wonder who he has more loyalty to, himself or his kids. Kushner may already be beyond saving.
You know you've always been my favorite, don't you Ivana?
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:27 PM   #6149
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It's unclear if he could pardon himself. There's certainly no precedent, but a pardon by definition is from a sovereign to a citizen, so unlikely it would be that simple. At the very least, very risky.

It's moot if impeachment comes as that's political, not judicial (I think most people in this thread have discussed this ad nauseum).

What is interesting though, is that despite the legal quagmire of indicting a sitting president for a crime and trying to prosecute him, that dissapates the second he leaves office.

So you could simply wait until either impeachment or end of term to indict and he'd be hooped
Nah, president Pence would pardon him with the quickness if he was successfully removed from office.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:32 PM   #6150
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Nah, president Pence would pardon him with the quickness if he was successfully removed from office.
Depends on how much support Trump has with red voters. He wouldn't cost himself a chance at another 4 years
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:33 PM   #6151
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There aren't always opportunities to post this, but when there are...
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:35 PM   #6152
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Depends on how much support Trump has with red voters. He wouldn't cost himself a chance at another 4 years
In a logical world yes you're correct. But in this insane world we live in now I fear the goalposts for reasonable have been moved so far that nothing that either Trump or Pence does will affect their support in the least. He'd be pardoned before the paperwork was even submitted.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:40 PM   #6153
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Mueller can't really criminally charge the president or at least it would be the first time ever. And even if criminally charged he can just Pardon himself. So impeachment is really the only mechanism to damage him. In order to build up that impeachment case he needs to get house republicans on board.
Yeah, no President will ever be convicted for crimes committed while in office. They'll do the Nixon-Ford two step (I'll resign before I'm removed via impeachment if you pardon me) before that happens.

Kushner & Junior make this a bit more complicated. The Ford Nixon pardon was controversial but could be defended as being " best interests of the country". Hard for a hypothetical Pence to do it and include Kushner and Trump Junior. Trump would have to do it first and a combo of the two (Trump pardon of his family -> Pence pardon of Trump) might be massively toxic. The public would want someone to pay the price ala G Gordon Liddy and the rest of the White House Plumbers.

If I were Manafort I'd go get a REALLY good lawyer on retainer now just in case.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:40 PM   #6154
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It's unclear if he could pardon himself. There's certainly no precedent, but a pardon by definition is from a sovereign to a citizen, so unlikely it would be that simple. At the very least, very risky.

It's moot if impeachment comes as that's political, not judicial (I think most people in this thread have discussed this ad nauseum).

What is interesting though, is that despite the legal quagmire of indicting a sitting president for a crime and trying to prosecute him, that dissapates the second he leaves office.

So you could simply wait until either impeachment or end of term to indict and he'd be hooped
The Pardon clause in the constitution is very wide open though and there is certainly no explicit limitation of pardoning oneself. The Pardon can also be used for crimes committed but not yet charged. Ford's Pardon against Nixon for any crimes he committed while in office.

Now this wasn't challenged to the Supreme Court and it was widely condemned at the time.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:45 PM   #6155
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@JulianAssange

Contacted Trump Jr this morning on why he should publish his emails (i.e with us). Two hours later, does it himself:
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:12 PM   #6156
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Martin Belam ‏Verified account @MartinBelam 7h7 hours ago
Imagine Watergate. But one of Nixon's kids kept uploading all the tapes to Soundcloud
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:15 PM   #6157
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@JulianAssange

Contacted Trump Jr this morning on why he should publish his emails (i.e with us). Two hours later, does it himself:
Note to political actors... if Julian Assange says you should do something it's probably not a good idea. Also probably a bad idea... giving Julian Assange your phone number.
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:22 PM   #6158
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The Associated Press @AP

BREAKING: President Trump calls son Donald Trump Jr. `a high-quality person,' applauds `his transparency'
11:31 AM · Jul 11, 2017
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:48 PM   #6159
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https://mobile.twitter.com/yashar/st...301760/video/1
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:55 PM   #6160
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Transparency...after lying about the reason for the meeting, getting caught in that lie and the being told emails were going to be made public.

Stand up person is junior.
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