Omar F*****G Khadr is getting $10.5 milion

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Fair enough. I guess I would define a soldier as someone who is in an organized group that fights for something: money, freedom, beliefs, justice.

Do you believe he fits that description?

He may very well fit your definition, but that could also include someone in the Hells Angels.

I define a soldier as someone who belongs to a state army and wears a uniform. I would also add that a soldier receives initial formal training in his/her tradecraft and receives further training as s/he advances in rank. A soldier is also part of a military that typically has some sort of code of service discipline. A soldier is also commanded by someone responsible for subordinates.

In my opinion, Khadr was nothing more than a drone building bombs in AQ hangouts. AQ also employed him as an interpreter. So, no, I do not believe he was a soldier. I also do not think there is sufficient evidence to support him being labelled a terrorist either but there really isn't any worldwide consensus on that definition. Certainly, it is my belief that the USA has defined a "terrorist" to be almost anyone. I suspect that the very fact of belonging to AQ was sufficient evidence for the USA to label him a terrorist.

[OMG!WTF!]

You still have to prove a case against him for treason. A video of him making bombs is not going to do it. Were they really bombs? Were they used against Canadian soldiers? Did he throw the grenade? No one saw him. There was another guy alive in the compound. What's more likely, his confession under torture is true, or he has no reliable memory of the event due to trauma and shock? He was blown up. It's pretty reasonable to believe he has no recall of the event. So knock your socks off with a treason charge.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

He may very well fit your definition, but that could also include someone in the Hells Angels.

I define a soldier as someone who belongs to a state army and wears a uniform. I would also add that a soldier receives initial formal training in his/her tradecraft and receives further training as s/he advances in rank. A soldier is also part of a military that typically has some sort of code of service discipline. A soldier is also commanded by someone responsible for subordinates.

I get based on your life path that you're proud of the word and I can respect that. I think for most people outside the life - a soldier is someone who fights for a cause and while you could lump HA members into that, I think as vile as they may be, the Taliban is closer to you than they are to the HA.

They train, they rank and they lead right?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Khadr passing from his injuries sadly would have made this a lot easier.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You still have to prove a case against him for treason. A video of him making bombs is not going to do it. Were they really bombs? Were they used against Canadian soldiers? Did he throw the grenade? No one saw him. There was another guy alive in the compound. What's more likely, his confession under torture is true, or he has no reliable memory of the event due to trauma and shock? He was blown up. It's pretty reasonable to believe he has no recall of the event. So knock your socks off with a treason charge.

Me? I didn't mention he should be charged with Treason. I corrected someone else on the statute of limitations of a Treason charge and that if the Government wished to consider a treason charge, they could charge him with High Treason. I didn't write "should".

[OMG!WTF!]

I just meant the collective "you". Like anyone who's been yipping about a treason charge. Actually, I may have just been yelling at my radio.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I get based on your life path that you're proud of the word and I can respect that. I think for most people outside the life - a soldier is someone who fights for a cause and while you could lump HA members into that, I think as vile as they may be, the Taliban is closer to you than they are to the HA.

They train, they rank and they lead right?

Sure. There are many guerilla outfits that fall into that definition, but I wouldn't call them soldiers for the simple reason they aren't conducting their operations as part of a state military.

[iggy_oi]

People may not agree with this, but here is my reasoning for why I believe Khadr deserves his settlement, even if he is guilty of all the allegations, he went to trial and thus far our government has upheld his conviction and even had him serve a portion of it here. He broke the law, he paid the legal price. What the government did was no different, they broke the law, they need to also be held accountable.

It doesn't matter what either side's motives were, or how they got into the situations at the time they committed their alleged crimes. The rule of law in our country must be upheld, when the law is broken there needs to be accountability. No matter what he did, I can't in good conscience take the position that we must hold an individual responsible for their crimes while not holding those who enforce the law(government) just as responsible when they commit a crime.

That becomes a very slippery slope which puts our democracy at risk. People fought and died for the laws we have, when we start to ignore those laws whenever we feel it is convenient, and remove accountability from our government to obey those laws the same as we are expected to, we slowly erode the make up of our society. In doing so we move away from a free democracy and closer towards an authoritarian state. All things being equal if I had to choose between which scenario is more damaging and dangerous overall, Khadr being given a free pass on his crimes or the government being given a free pass on theirs, I would choose the government being given a free pass and frankly I don't even consider it debatable.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

The fact that you at comparing a minor being sexually assaulted by an adult to a 15 year old terrorist is disgusting. You're being purposely ignorant to satisfy your narrative.

FWIW, I think you're disgusting. And pathetic.

We aren't talking about a typical kid growing up in Canada and deciding to do a Columbine. From birth, he was set up to fail. How the hell do you expect him to really know what's right/wrong [according to our privileged 1st world western view]?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

Sure. There are many guerilla outfits that fall into that definition, but I wouldn't call them soldiers for the simple reason they aren't conducting their operations as part of a state military.

How many people in the world are citizen's of states that are legitimately governed? When did 'statehood' come into existence? Would William Wallace and his team not be considered soldiers? How did our current existence of states come to be?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jammies

This has to be in the running for stupidest controversy of the 21st century. Just listen to yourselves: "Let's try a 13 year old boy for treason."

Do you want fascists? 'Cause that's how you end up with fascists. It all seems like great fun until you realize the rule of law that protected and succored those you despise, also protected and succored you.

The really scary thing is I'm pretty sure Zulu said he is an RCMP officer.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Voted for Trudeau. Hate terrorists. Try again.

Do you live in the Montreal?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The really scary thing is I'm pretty sure Zulu said he is an RCMP officer.

Holy crap. It's mindbottling. He seems to have such a simplistic view of this, lacking any consideration of nuance or complexity to the issue - DESPITE being a full grown adult who has easy and open access to a vast amount of information and different perspectives/ideas - yet he expects a teenager who has lived his entire life under an authoritative father/regime that controlled the flow of information to him, to consider the complexities and morals of a perpetual conflict that few scholars are even able to really wrap their heads around.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I'm more concerned with his statement that he voted for Trudeau. On the off-chance he does live in the electoral district of Papineau, I apologize. But at this point I don't think he even understands how our government works.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Holy crap. It's mindbottling. He seems to have such a simplistic view of this, lacking any consideration of nuance or complexity to the issue - DESPITE being a full grown adult who has easy and open access to a vast amount of information and different perspectives/ideas - yet he expects a teenager who has lived his entire life under an authoritative father/regime that controlled the flow of information to him, to consider the complexities and morals of a perpetual conflict that few scholars are even able to really wrap their heads around.

I don't deny he was tortured, don't deny his rights were violated. I just have a very hard time stomaching the fact that he is getting so much monetary compensation for this. Do not have an issue with the fact he was repatriated to Canada, don't have an issue with him being given an apology. I just think it should have ended there.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Do you live in the Montreal?

And this would mean what?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I don't deny he was tortured, don't deny his rights were violated. I just have a very hard time stomaching the fact that he is getting so much monetary compensation for this. Do not have an issue with the fact he was repatriated to Canada, don't have an issue with him being given an apology. I just think it should have ended there.

I think that's fair.

What do you think someone who was tortured for 10 years, and denied basic human rights by their government should be compensated? Just released back into society and an apology?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I don't deny he was tortured, don't deny his rights were violated. I just have a very hard time stomaching the fact that he is getting so much monetary compensation for this. Do not have an issue with the fact he was repatriated to Canada, don't have an issue with him being given an apology. I just think it should have ended there.

What? A couple pages ago you were saying he should be in jail for the rest of his life. Now you're ok with apologizing to him? Whatever.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I think that's fair.

What do you think someone who was tortured for 10 years, and denied basic human rights by their government should be compensated? Just released back into society and an apology?

Well was he tortured by Canada and denied basic human rights by Canada? Could the government have done more? Without a doubt, would it have resulted in a different outcome for him? Probably not, but that's beside the point.

As for a remedy? Great question, house him, provide him counselling for his ordeal, provide him with education credits to pursue the vocation of his choice? I don't know, cutting a cheque for 10.5 million just doesn't seem like an appropriate remedy.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What? A couple pages ago you were saying he should be in jail for the rest of his life. Now you're ok with apologizing to him? Whatever.

No, I did not say he should be sent to jail for life, you're making an aweful lot of assumptions.